Canadian Rationalkeith Mary Phagan Interview

AI Video Transcription:

Well, no need to delay any longer.
Mary Phagan has officially joined us on stage.
Mary, are you familiar with spaces?
If not, you have to unmute yourself to talk
and then once you're done speaking, if you remute yourself,
although you're probably gonna be doing most of the talking,
so definitely welcome you to the space.
So thank you so much for joining us.
Let me know if you can figure out the mics that you.
- I think I can, did you hear me?
- Yeah, loud and clear, you sound great.
- Wonderful.
- Fantastic, well, thank you for joining us
on behalf of myself and Keith
and everybody here at JQ Radio.
Your story has been one that a lot of us have known about
for a very long time, although I think
how most people understand the story is through the meme
that I shared in the Jumbotron,
which is at the top of the space,
there's a place where you can link posts
and I've shared what most people are going to be familiar
with out of your story.
And I kind of wanted to start there
and then give you a chance to kind of introduce yourself
and maybe correct or launch from that point
'cause I think the audience best understands your story
from this meme that has been circulating.
But why don't you give a quick introduction
and maybe for people who aren't familiar with your situation,
kind of introduce the overall story of what's happened
and then we'll dive into the specifics
'cause there's a lot to get into, an amazing amount.
- Yeah, I took more notes than ever.
And again, everyone, please retweet this bad boy right now
from Mary joining us and everything.
And again, quote tweet and just quote tweet
live with Mary Phagan, ADL Leo Frank.
And thank you, Mary, for joining us so, so much.
- And thank you for having me.
I'm excited to inform the world now,
what is happening with the possibility of Leo Frank
getting an exoneration in Georgia
through the Innocence Project arranged by tactics
with the ADL, the governor, former governor Roy Barnes,
a Rabbi LeVau and it's going through the Innocence Project
and it's also Fannie Willis's, the Fulton County DA
who has undermined Trump and others
with the open records request.
And I just applied for open records request
to get this information and I was denied.
They said they were exempt
because it's an ongoing investigation.
Well, it shouldn't be an ongoing investigation.
Leo Frank was convicted in 1913
for the murder of my great aunt.
She was only 13 years old and all the courts,
he went to the full Supreme court,
he had 13 of them and every one of them,
every one of the courts did not feel that he was not guilty.
They felt he was guilty.
They didn't address the sentence at all.
So that's what's happening now.
There's a lot more to it, of course,
and the battle that has begun
and as you are probably well aware of,
I don't go out advertising who I am,
but I will not let them smear little Mary Phagan now,
which they are doing.
And in order to get to their point
that the black man, Jim Conley,
was the murderer of Mary Phagan
and they say they have evidence to prove it,
which I know that is not true.
I'm sure they're using the 1982 Alonzo Mann statement
where he said he was his office boy
and he saw Jim Conley with the body of Mary Phagan
on the first floor.
And that attributed to a posthumous pardon given in 1986
by the Georgia Pardons and Paroles Board
without addressing his guilt or innocence.
- So that is, we're kind of getting way into the thick
of it and of course, I know you're probably the most
concerned about the more modern updates,
but I kind of wanna take the audience back.
- Just one second, Canadian, real quick too,
'cause Brother Nathaniel just DM'd me.
I don't know if he's still down there.
If you are Brother Nathaniel, again, nothing against you.
Canadians set this up.
Mary's gracious enough to be here,
so I don't think we're gonna take any people up for now
until afterwards, possibly if Mary wants to take questions
and all that, and just for the rest of the audience
in case you guys know, 'cause I do obviously feel bad
and I get how it is, but Brother Nathaniel just said,
every time I come in, I request to speak
and I get shot down, but it's nothing against you,
Brother Nathaniel or anyone.
Obviously, we're gonna roll with this
and then if Mary has time, we'll take questions
and Canadian's in charge, so we'll go from there.
But just wanted to let everyone know that.
And again, thank you everybody for retweeting
and everything, appreciate it, sorry, Canadian.
- Yeah, no, thanks for that, Keith.
Yeah, just to reiterate what he said,
this is entirely up to Mary.
If she wants to take questions from the general audience,
we'll do so at the end if time permits.
We've got a lot to get through here,
so I don't wanna bring up guest speakers
and have the space kinda taken in a hundred directions.
Mary's got a lot of information to share
and she's got her revision of her book being published again
coming up hopefully soon, I think maybe next month
if rumors are accurate, but I'll let you touch
onto that a bit more, Mary, but--
- Do you have a hard out on time or do we not know?
- I'm not sure, Mary, do you have a hard time?
- What does that mean?
- Do you have any time you have to leave specifically or?
- I'm home and the VA has covered me
for taking care of my caregiver responsibilities
for my husband, so I'm available as long as you want me.
- Perfect. - Fantastic.
- And I will take questions.
- Amazing, okay, so there you go audience,
if you're interested in asking Mary some questions,
please stick around till the end.
We'll try to get through as much of it as we can.
There's so much to talk about and I've listened
to the various podcasts that Mary has done,
read a lot of the stuff that she's published,
so there's a whole bunch that we need to get into here.
So just be patient if you've got some things you wanna ask,
we'll try to get to it at the end.
Mary, so what I wanted to do, like I said,
is kinda start the audience off from the beginning
and like I said, kinda launch from the point
that they're most familiar with,
which would be that meme that goes around
and I'm not sure if you can see it,
but I'll kinda read it out to you.
And all it is is just a three panel slide.
It introduces Leo Frank as the president
of the Atlanta chapter of the Benai Brix,
the superintendent of the National Pencil Company.
It says that Mary was a 13 year old Catholic girl
working at a pencil factory and that he raped
and murdered her during the Jewish holiday
of Pisach Tenai, the second Passover on April 26, 1913.
And then after he was lynched,
a group of Jewish attorneys from Chicago
got together and formed the ADL in order to prevent people
from critiquing the Jewish people and their practices
is how the story goes.
So maybe we'll start there.
There's a couple of claims in here
that I want you to maybe touch on.
One of them being this was over the Jewish holiday
of Pisach Tenai.
Is that something that's been confirmed
or is this more like lore or rumor
that circulates around the story itself
or is this even something central to the story?
- I don't think it's essential to the story
because actually what it was was Confederate Memorial Day
for our Southern veterans during the war between the states.
And that was the holiday that she was celebrating
and that she got ready for so that she could go visit
the parade after she got her paycheck of a dollar and 20 cents.
- Okay, good to know.
I mean, this is why it's so important
because the real story has so much disgusting truth
inside of it that we don't need things that aren't true
to cloud the story itself.
The truth is strong enough to stand on its own.
That's part of the reason why I wanted to address this meme
is 'cause it does seem that maybe there's some things
in there that we don't need to have
in order to tell this story.
So I just wanted to let the audience see that
and also to let you have a chance to kind of address it
'cause ultimately this is,
well, it's not necessarily your story,
it is your family story, it's your ancestor story.
And if anyone should set the record straight,
it should be you.
- Yes, and I believe that strongly and that is my destiny.
And I've always felt that since I found out about
the murder of little Mary, ironically, at the age of 13.
The Phagan family never spoke about it.
And by the way, I just wanted to let you know,
she was not Catholic.
I'm Catholic because of my mom who is Italian,
100% Italian, and she, my father had to sign papers
when he married her that his children
would be raised as Catholic.
So I wanted to clarify that one as well.
So when I found out about little Mary Phagan,
my dad was in the military, Air Force, military brat,
in Charleston, South Carolina, when we moved there,
I went to Arby's Stahl High School
and my science teacher, Mr. Henry, at that time,
most teachers just lined you up
and never even looked at your face.
They just said, okay, you're next, next, next, next.
Next, so I standing in line and I said, Mary Phagan.
And he got quiet and he pointed his pencil at my name
and he said, you know, there was a little girl in the 1920s
that was murdered with your name in Atlanta.
Are you by chance related to her?
Told him, no sir, I don't know.
Unfortunately, I'm 13 and the boy started teasing me
and tell me I was dead and I was reincarnated
and I was just upset so bad that I cried all the way home
because of the situation what they were telling me
that, you know, who wants to be dead?
You know, I'm not reincarnated.
I, no, no, no, no, no.
Daddy happened to be home, which is very rare for him.
He was always busy and he flew for the Air Force.
He was a flight engineer.
So I came home and I said, Dad, Mr. Henry says
that there was a little girl that was murdered by him
in Atlanta with my name, Mary Phagan.
He became very quiet and very colored in his face of shock.
And he said, and I asked, am I related?
He said, you go back to school tomorrow
and you tell Mr. Henry that yes, you are related
to little Mary Phagan that was murdered in 1913
by Leo Frank, the superintendent
of the National Pencil Company
on April 26th, Confederate Memorial Day.
He was convicted of the crime.
He was lynched and I want you to go back
and tell him that yes, you are related.
Well, I'm only 13.
You can imagine being 13.
A lot of things don't make sense at that age.
And for me, it just went in one ear and out the other.
And I knew I would never ever be asked that question again.
Boy, was I wrong.
So he got reassigned, he retired,
and he decided that we would move back to Atlanta, Georgia
because grandfather was getting ill and he wanted us to know
his, our grandfather and grandparents there.
On the first day of high school
in DeKalb County Shamrock High School, I had six classes.
Every one of my teachers asked me if I was related
to little Mary Phagan and proudly I said yes,
but my mind couldn't settle down.
I got back home and I said to daddy,
there's more to the story than what you told me
because every one of my teachers asked me if I was related.
He said, yes, there is more to the story,
but at that time when you found out, so I'm 15,
he said, when you were 13 and came home,
he said, I just didn't think that you needed to know
some of the things that went on with her murder.
So then he asked me, did you want to research it?
And I said, yes, sir, I would.
So my mom, I couldn't drive at the time,
so mom took me to the Georgia archives
that was called in downtown Atlanta.
And we went, oh my God, I get shamed.
- Well, real quick, Mary, didn't you say,
I believe you said your mother didn't even know
about the whole situation here?
- No, she was never told, nobody talked about it.
It was a sentence of silence
that great grandmother Fanny Coleman,
Fanny Phagan Coleman had given the family
that they were not allowed to talk about it
to reporters, to book writers, anything.
We were not allowed, but she didn't know it either.
So she was just as interested as I was,
like, what the heck is going on here?
So the one thing that he, so we went
and there was a 12 foot photo or stand
of the lynching of Leo Frank.
Well, it shook me up pretty bad.
I mean, I'm 15 and I've never seen a lynching before
and it was awful, it was terrifying.
But I researched, and mom and I researched,
I have a library here that mom and I collected
over the years, so it is really important
for people to know that most of the historians
that have written about this case,
except for maybe three, are the same religious faith
as Leo Frank.
I had no idea he was Jewish, so then I found out
he was Jewish.
Dad told me he was Jewish and he said he was a sexual pervert.
And I said, well, what is a sexual pervert?
He said, I want you to go get the dictionary.
This is just my father's style with me.
He said, you go get the dictionary
and you read what a sexual pervert is.
And I thought, wow, that guy is something.
That's terrible what he did to her.
Dad gave me the book, "A Little Girl Is Dead"
by Harry Golden and said, this is the first book
that the family had really said, or most people claimed
that it was the truth.
Again, Harry Golden was Jewish himself.
He was also had some legal issues
and he and Leonard Dinerstein, a professor from Arizona,
who is also Jewish, in 1965, he wrote a thesis.
Amazingly, the trial, the original trials transcript,
because they sent in researchers and editors
and all these people to Atlanta to get all the information,
the trial transcript disappeared
after their books were written.
There is no trial transcript.
- Funny how that happens.
- It was amazing.
It's amazing, I'm like, what?
But there is what they call a brief of evidence.
It's a review and I have a copy of that.
And that's what I studied mostly.
Didn't have access.
Well, let me go back a little bit
so that you guys can understand.
- Yeah, I was hoping maybe we could frame it
starting with sort of the formation of the ADL
and kind of maybe take it from there chronologically
'cause I think there's so much to get into, right?
And I know the most modern things
are gonna be the most poignant,
but just to give the background to the audience.
- Yeah, so anyway, what happened,
you have to go back to the original newspaper accounts,
in my personal opinion, in order to study this case.
And of course, they weren't available back then
when I was 15, 16, and 17,
but daddy and I went to Georgia State Library
and they had the microfilm of that.
So I started reading the newspaper articles
and I said, dad, he's Jewish,
what is the big deal with this about him being Jewish?
And now they're saying that, the book is saying
that he was convicted because of antisemitism.
I don't understand.
He says, what don't you understand?
I said, look at these articles.
He said, what do you mean?
I said, not one time at the Atlanta Constitution,
the Atlanta Georgian, or the Atlanta Journal,
has it ever mentioned that Leo Frank is Jewish?
Never mentioned.
- The most interesting thing I remember picking out
is that when you were talking about the trial,
I remember hearing you say,
the only antisemitic thing that happened
was when the mother of Leo Frank accused the solicitor
of being a stupid goy, is that correct?
- Yeah. - Or a stupid gentile.
On August 14th, the newspaper's reported in 1913,
he was cross-examining a person
and he said something about getting close to the legs,
between the legs, if you get my meaning,
and the mother of Leo Frank shouted out,
and neither did you, you gentile dog.
And that's--
- I had just written that down a half hour ago.
That's wild.
And then I believe you said she was removed after that,
which shows how strict they were back then,
'cause nowadays I'm sure they'd probably be like,
oh, it's okay.
But it's kind of funny,
I think where you're getting at, Mary,
is that nobody on your side was like,
he's Jewish, she's Jewish, or anything for the most part,
but she comes out and says, you gentile dog,
which is funny how that works.
- Yes, right, and on the last day of the trial,
and I'll tell you what the defense was,
and you'll be more interested in that too,
that has never come out,
was the defense on the last day of the trial
had some cross-examinees coming in
talking about the trolley conductor, George Kenley,
and quoted him as saying,
and I would kill that damn Jew when hanging too.
And that's how the trial ended with the defense,
that they brought the Jewish isness up out in the court,
and that was how the trial ended.
What happened with the defense,
the defense people, what you need to know,
were very, very Southern, very, oh gosh,
they were top of the top lawyers in the state of Georgia,
and their defense was that Leo Frank was white privilege,
and that a white man would not do the things
that he did to her, rape her brutally, and murder her.
So that was their defense, was white privilege,
and that the black man, Jim Connolly, did it,
and that was their defense,
and they say that in the defense, in the articles,
that you have to read, that has the questions and the answers.
So I'm putting all this stuff together, 15, 16, and 17,
and I'm saying, daddy, this isn't our story.
Why are all these people writing about this
and not telling the truth?
He said, because they're not going
to the original documentation, honey, and you are.
And so we made copies of the microfilm,
and that's how I wrote my book in 1988,
was because I had all the statements
with the questions regarding Jim Connolly.
There was no courtroom app,
but there was nothing like "Hang the Jew."
There's so many hoaxes, and I hope we can get into those.
- And Mary, you know, it's awesome, but your dad,
it's actually the first note I wrote down,
was you said your dad said that you need
to form your own opinion from researching it.
- And I did, and he trusted me.
- Oh, I know you did.
- Yeah, he trusted me to make up my own mind.
- And also, I just wanna say thank you for being here, Mary.
I just wanna say thank you for being here,
and thank you for your bravery for speaking out on this,
'cause from the interview with Jake,
I could tell you were pissed off,
or you wanna set the record straight,
you know, so to say, because of all these,
over the decades, which we'll get into,
just all the misconceptions and all the lies,
which is just absolutely insane.
- Right, so how the ADL formed was he was convicted,
sentenced to hang by Judge Roan,
and on a certain date, and they got all that,
and they did all the appeals process and everything.
But what happened right after the trial,
I will also tell you that there's so many claims
that all these people and all these newspapers
spread propaganda and sensationalism.
I will tell you this, the New York Times
only printed five articles during the whole Goddurn trial.
That's it.
Nobody else printed the stories,
it was the Atlanta papers, that's it.
Ironically, the Atlanta papers,
all three editors were of the Jewish faith.
They were pro-Frank, but nobody says that,
and I discovered that, and I'm like,
wow, this is interesting,
and I back up everything with evidence
in the revision of the book.
I added 19 chapters, I think,
of all the stuff that's been going on since 1982 and '83.
So it's amazing what they're doing,
what they've done over the years.
- Well, and they claim the trial is anti-Semitic.
Wasn't there four Jews on the jury?
- Yep. - That was the grand jury,
not the jury itself, the grand jury.
Yes, that's correct, so there's a difference.
And what you all have to realize,
Jim Connolly did not testify at the grand jury.
Nobody knew about Jim Connolly.
- Yeah, I wrote that down as well, that's very interesting.
And one of the most interesting things,
and I circled it, is what you already said,
was how their defense was white privilege,
and most people in here know that Jews can masquerade
as white when they want to,
and not white when they don't want to,
which is what's very interesting
about how they chose to go down that path for their defense.
And I do want people to understand that.
- Until that defense doesn't work, right, Keith?
And then suddenly the defense is anti-Semitism
when being an upstanding white man
wasn't the effective defense.
- And I do want people to understand
that this was 1913, this was the Jim Crow South.
So when they're saying this was rigged,
the ADL and all this and that, back then,
obviously there was actual racism back then.
They would at any chance convict a black person
of doing something like this.
If there was even a shred of actual evidence.
But that, in my opinion, also just shows
how much evidence was against Leo in the whole case,
because, again, this is the Jim Crow South
in the mid-1910s,
and of course Leo got convicted,
and then we'll get into all the what came afterwards.
But yeah, it is very interesting
how they went with that white privilege part of it.
And then, like you said, Canadian, that's a good point.
Then they transitioned to, oh, it's anti-Semitic,
so which one is it?
- And the anti-Semitism came from his rabbi, Marx.
He trained up there to New York
and told them that he was convicted because he was Jewish.
That's how that started.
So that's the beginning of the ADL and how that started.
And these were very, very wealthy individuals
that owned the newspapers,
and they were even made comments about Leo Frank
that they weren't even sure if he was a homosexual or what,
that they didn't care if he fell down and broke his neck.
But the anti-Semitism has stuck for all these years.
Finally, it has broken, though.
I want you guys to know that it's no longer accepted
that there was anti-Semitism at the trial,
and that came out in 2003 with Steve Oni's book
in "The Dead Shall Rise,"
the murder of Mary Feigen and the lynching of Leo Frank.
And he is the ADL's expert,
but nobody says that from 2003 on.
They just ignore it, just have more people write in the books
with the historians who are the same religious faith.
Steve Oni was not Jewish.
So it was really interesting to me
that that wasn't really covered.
Today, it has changed with this exoneration attempt
with the fact that there was an anti-Semitism at the trial
and there was no hang the Jew.
And those are all the hoaxes that if I have time,
I'd like to go over every single one of them.
- Oh yeah, absolutely.
I wanna get into those hoaxes
and I don't wanna leave the trial
and I don't wanna leave the trial
until we've set the preface properly.
So one of the things I've been noted,
and maybe you can elaborate on this,
was that even before the trial,
Leo Frank attempted to frame three other people
in the investigation leading up to the trial.
Is that accurate?
Two black men and a white man, is that accurate?
- Yes, that's very accurate.
And one of them was a personal friend of the Feigen family.
He grew up with Mary and he was part of the family
since Mary was age four, Gant, G-A-N-T,
and he left his shoes there.
Most people don't say this about Leo Frank.
They just say he was arrested.
There were three or there were four other people
that were arrested before Leo Frank was arrested.
Leo Frank commented to the detectives about Gantt
and how close he was to Mary.
Now remember, he said he didn't know her,
but yet he knew this man.
- Wow. - Had connections.
Had connections.
It's all in the newspaper accounts.
It's all in there.
I'm telling you.
Oh, by the way, I do have all the microfilm.
I bought all the microfilm from those newspapers
and I do have a collection here
at Georgia State University of the Truth.
So. - Yeah, he said he didn't know her,
but he passed, I believe he said with Jake
that he passed her all the time on the streets going,
I believe, to the pencil factory and stuff.
And I did not know that.
So you're basically saying he blamed a family friend,
essentially. - Yes.
- That is, oof, that is next level.
- Trying to direct that to them.
He directed the first one, I believe,
oh, I can't remember his name.
I can see it, but I can't remember his name.
But anyway, there was Newt Lee,
who was the night watchman,
and he was African-American, and Jim Connolly,
and then Gantt, and there was one more other.
There was another person for,
I wanna say he was an African-American.
Snowball is what I think his name is.
Gordon Bailey, I think.
But anyway, he accused them or gave the detectives
enough information to go and arrest them.
But yet he doesn't know little Mary Phagan at all.
And he passed her station every day
when he had to go to the restroom on the second floor.
- And then during the trial, I made note of this as well.
Was this during the trial or after the trial
in this kind of revisionist history
where they began painting Mary Phagan
as this sort of voluptuous seductress?
By the way, when we say these words, audience, keep in mind,
she's 13, and they're trying to paint her as this.
But was this during the trial they were trying to do this,
or did this come after?
I'm sorry, my notes are a little--
- That's okay, many, many years after.
And Steve Oni was one of them in 2003.
- Okay, great, I don't wanna jump too far ahead,
so I just wanna make sure I have my stuff.
- People were starting, he basically started it,
and now every book that has been written since 2003
says basically the same thing.
The Parade musical, same thing.
Flirtatious, going after--
Nope, not happened.
And I have the original statements
from the Pinkerton detectives,
which great-grandmother says that she was 13,
she was large for her age, which you know what that meant.
She was big busted, is the word that daddy used with me.
But she did not have her menstrual cycle,
so she was not, no, yeah.
- Well, and then look, just for the record,
I don't think any of us here will agree with the idea
that just because you have your menstrual cycle
means it's okay for some adult pervert
who is also your boss, who's also employing you
while you're a child in a working factory
to sexually assault and rape and/or murder.
There's no exoneration of that
just because someone has a period,
but that aside, the fact that she didn't have her period
makes it, I guess, even worse.
I mean, to me, it's almost a meaningless bar,
but I guess you could just see-- - Well, a minute later,
it's terrible that they tried to spin it up
and say all these things about her,
as if they didn't know she was 13,
and oh, she was a little grown for her age and stuff.
And what is really striking now that,
I never knew that about the three people put forward,
so that, I gotta give a lot, it seems like I and everybody
in here, and everybody in yourself, Mary,
have to give a lot of credit to the detectives
for actually doing their job and not just taking
who Leo was just throwing at them, so to say.
- Right, and they were very cautious and careful,
and I found some information regarding the scuttle hole,
because that's what his defense said,
that Jim Conley brought Mary's body down the scuttle hole.
Well, the scuttle's hole's like two feet by four feet,
Jim Conley was a huge man, and the detectives,
I just, I can't remember which one it was,
Starnes or Dodds, or there's several,
but they all said, there's no way a person can get there,
one person, they had to go through that,
and it was very difficult for one person to go through,
so you can't imagine a body going through there,
and truthfully, if he did use the scuttle hole,
he would have thrown her down there,
and the autopsy report, no indication whatsoever
that she was thrown or had any bones broken.
- Wow, so see, that shows they actually went on the ground,
did their detective duty, and didn't just say,
all right, we'll take your word for it.
- The other thing that they came up with,
there's a chapter in the book called,
the Leo Frank Hessen, it was written in 1913
by an anonymous person, that the defense did plants,
and it is in the newspaper accounts again,
that they planted evidence,
bloody shirts, her umbrella, her pay envelope,
that was all plants done by Frank's defense,
but nobody here now in modern day times talks about it,
it's never talked about.
- What were they trying to get at with those plants,
what were they trying to--
- They were trying to prove that Leo Frank was innocent,
and blamed those plants on the African Americans.
- And that's perfect, let's maybe dive into that,
'cause we're still in the context of the trial,
the ADL has yet to form,
so we've learned about kind of the history,
what supposed had happened,
the three people that got accused,
now what did the defense,
aside from the post-humorously accusing trial
of antisemitism 50 years later,
what were they doing during the trial
to try and exonerate Leo Frank that maybe wasn't above board,
or wasn't necessarily legal,
and that we were able to prove later?
- I've got a whole section on that,
that's one of the hoaxes is the plants,
and let me go to that, let me hang on,
I got some papers here.
- Oh good, take your time.
- No rush.
- Do you wanna go in a different--
- Yeah, well I have, I've written it all out.
(laughing)
- No, I'm all right.
- Do you wanna take it in a different--
- I mean, they did say it's like it's amazing with the--
- I know you'd better not.
- Do you wanna take it in a different direction,
if you wanna take it in a different direction or go
in a particular narrative path that you wanna take,
then by all means, I'm just trying to,
in my mind, keep it temporally organized.
- I can imagine how much you have,
'cause I know you said to Jake
that you had 57 years of materials that you handed over.
- Yes, I did.
So the plants were, it was fake or framed up evidence
to the benefit of the defense that he wasn't guilty.
So the club not found in a cleanup,
that was in the Atlanta Georgian on August 1st, 1913,
the Leo Frank case inside of Georgia's
Greatest Murder Mystery published by
Atlanta Publishing Company has a whole chapter
of plants that were charged to Frank.
And I list the pages, 64 to 67.
I have my evidence, very, very, I'm good.
I can prove everything that I tell you guys.
Night Fell on Georgia was written in 1956,
and they discuss it in pages 36, 81 through 82, 142.
Here's Steve Oni, he does pages 179 to 80.
The secret relationship between blacks and Jews,
that's the nation of Islam, they care for the case.
And the lynching pages in 2016, that was the latest one,
38 to 44, 327, and 326, 327.
So I even list the page numbers of where this evidence
is coming from that I have.
Somebody said I should be an attorney,
but I don't wanna be an attorney, that's for sure.
But that's what they did.
Let me pull that book out and see if I can share with you.
Where's my little book, where is it?
- Yeah, whoever said that's right, you definitely should be,
'cause listening to Jake, you have all this stuff down.
- Oh yes, I do.
- And you have the hard covers, or the hard evidence,
like you said, which is very important,
'cause they're gonna obviously twist everything,
but that original evidence is what matters.
- Right, and then I have, I just break it all down and say
that this did not happen according to the newspaper accounts,
the brief of evidence, it's contradictory,
so I'm able to give the truth.
- Could you explain the brief of evidence real quick,
'cause that was very interesting to myself.
- Yeah, sure, it's 436 pages long,
and it has all the things that were given to the jury,
just the evidence that they had,
and it's just a description of the case
of the person's testimony, no questions are asked.
What's interesting about that is,
I keep saying African American, but back in that time,
they were actually called colored.
So the brief of evidence has that in there,
whenever a colored person was on the witness stand,
they literally put in the brief of evidence, colored.
- Interesting, and the thing I guess,
so the brief of evidence--
- Is a summary of the--
- Okay, yep, 'cause I believe you said
that some of the evidence magically disappeared, I believe,
it was?
- That was the trial transcript, the original trial transcript.
- Oh, trial transcript.
- Yes, yes, and that disappeared in 1965.
- So before we get too far, well,
if you have more you wanna share on these,
on the hoaxes, please do,
and then the next thing I would like to touch on
is the abundance of testimony,
I took a note here that 20 different testimonies
were provided during the trial
of Leo Frank's sexual deviancy and perversion,
his conduct to the various people,
and I took a note here that surprised me
'cause you mentioned at the very end
that it wasn't just even limited to women,
but I'll let you touch on that,
maybe that's a good launching point.
- That's true, there was 20, they say women,
but it wasn't women, it included boys.
I did an analysis of those people that testified,
and like I said, there was boys there.
I mean, it wasn't just girls.
And the interesting part of that part of the trial to me
is that the defense never questioned them, never.
- No cross-examination.
- No cross-examination whatsoever, none.
- That's very easy.
- So the defense, they effectively allowed the accusation
of perversion to go unquestioned is what you're saying.
- And that's what that Leo Frank casebook
that was in 1913 says it was the sexual perversion
that got Leo Frank convicted.
- Wow, yeah, that's very weird.
Good way to summarize that, Canadian,
that's very weird that it just kind of let that go.
- Yeah, they don't ever say that.
- One of the quotes that really stood out to me
was one of his defenders said,
"I hope he gets free and then trips on a banana peel
"and breaks his neck,"
because even the people coming together to defend him
or exonerate him once they got familiar with the case,
even though they wanted him to be free for, I guess,
Jewish solidarity, also wanted him to die
because of how disgusted they were at his actions.
Although this isn't all of them,
but Mary, maybe you can comment.
- Yeah, it was Albert Lasker.
He was the very prominent person from New York
that had millions and millions of dollars at that time.
So, and that was the other thing that you guys should know.
The defense attorneys were the highest amount paid,
$15,000, which if you do it in today's terms,
it's like millions of dollars that they were paid.
And I'd like to point out one thing.
They always bring in that Tom Watson,
Tom Watson was part of the trial.
He was not.
He turned down the defense.
He did not wanna defend Leo Frank.
He felt he didn't wanna do it.
And no amount, he was offered, I think, $5,000,
and he turned it down.
He didn't come into the picture until after,
are you hearing me?
After the conviction of Leo Frank.
And that's where a lot of some of the anti-Semitism comes in
is because of his newspaper,
the Watson's Magazine and the Jeffersonian.
And by the way, I have all those two in the collection,
the originals, they have slowly disappeared from everywhere.
- And I believe you said a lot of the historians
were of the Jewish faith and were smearing Mary
that came in.
- Yes.
- Is that during the trial?
- During the trial.
- I'm sorry, I didn't hear you.
- I was saying, yeah, that's just aggravating
how that works like that.
- Yes, but yet the modern day era.
- I'm not sure if it's just me,
but I think Mary just cut out.
- I lost her for a second, yep.
- Okay, she might be having some connectivity issues.
I will give her a second to reconnect.
But this is, it's extremely interesting.
- Oh, there she is.
- Oh, welcome back Mary.
- Are you back Mary?
There you are. - Yes, I'm back.
- We lost you for about 15 seconds,
if you don't mind rewinding.
- Oh, I was just saying that.
- And I got your DM Amanda,
we'll definitely bring you up after.
- Yeah, we have all this, the collection
that I started collecting all this stuff.
And it's just, people need to know, I have thesis's,
a thesis came about in 1984 from a Harvard young man.
And the tactics that the Georgia Pardons and Paroles Board
and the Jewish community in Atlanta used
in order to get the exoneration without a trocinago,
that's amazing, that story.
It's disgusting.
- And let's maybe try to jump to that in one second,
'cause we're basically at the end of the trial now.
We've gotten through all the major details.
We've talked about the people
who tried to frame before the trial.
We've talked about the various hoaxes
that they tried to deploy during the trial
to exonerate him, none of those worked.
He was convicted by a jury of his own peers,
his own mother called the solicitor a goy or a Gentile.
So we've got all that as the preface.
Now we're at the end of the trial
and let's talk about what happened.
So as I understand it,
and obviously you can elaborate more on this,
he was convicted, but then at the last day
before the sentence was going to be executed,
there was a visitation to the mansion of the general
or the governor.
And the sentence was, I believe, commuted.
Why don't you touch on that briefly,
some of the scare quotes, conspiracy surrounding that.
Obviously it's not so much conspiracy as reality,
but please go ahead and maybe enlighten us
as to what happened there.
- Right, what people forget is they don't mention
that the governor Slayton, who commuted his sentence,
he got all the information and he wrote his own things,
but the Phagan family believes that he worked
with the attorneys to write the commutation,
commutation, computation, yes,
and that he was bought and paid for.
And he did it the last day in his office
and he fails to admit in that commutation
that he is a law partner of the firm
that defended Leo Frank.
- And wasn't he visited by a few lawyers
at that very night before the,
before he decided randomly on his own volition,
of course, to commute the sentence?
- Yes, that's true.
They had lookouts and they knew who came and who left,
and they didn't leave until way after midnight.
- Wow, but it is in many ways damning
to hear these types of things.
I mean, what else can you call it but conspiracy
when people move throughout the middle of the night
to work magic behind closed doors
only to come up the next day with about face of policy
that kind of stands in the face
of everything that just happened.
So-- - We call it Judaism.
- Yeah. - Yeah.
- It just blows your mind that it's out there,
but yet none of the books relate that to the public
because they feel like antisemitism is the worst,
is the reason why he was convicted and that is not true.
- And that's why clearing the table right here is important
'cause like you said, it was not true at all.
And then his own mother was the one that was being
the opposite of antisemitic calling,
I think, yeah, I wrote it down right here.
And neither do you, you Gentile dog.
I wrote Leo's mother August 14th, 1913 said,
"Neither do you, you Gentile dog."
So it's funny how they bring in the racism
if you wanna call it that.
- That's true, I would say it's racism
that they brought it in themselves.
His mother did. - Well, and they used the,
I mean, their defense was called,
forgive the French, Mary,
I'm sure you don't like hearing this,
but we're gonna use the expletives here
just to be a little bit of a shock value,
but they called him a nigger and accused the crime
of being a crime that only a nigger could commit.
So that's how their defense wasn't even about defending Leo,
it was about assaulting and attacking the black man
who they wanted to pin it on.
So they weren't even interested in defending Leo,
they didn't defend for her accusations.
- Probably that tactic, obviously,
'cause again, like I said, this is the Jim Crow South.
They probably thought we could just say,
"Hey, he's a nigger and we'll get the conviction."
So again, it goes to show how much actual evidence there was
because obviously down there,
I'm sure it is what it is back then.
Sure, white people, any people besides blacks,
but white people would love to just be like,
"Oh yeah, well, hey, it was him."
But they actually looked at the evidence and saw that.
And then we can get into the grand jury in a minute
'cause that was definitely interesting
about who was on that.
- I know, it's just amazing to me.
And they not only said those things,
they called him a lion, filthy, drunken, inward, in court.
In court.
They don't tell you that Jim Conley
withstood the defense team's cross-examination
for three days, over 16 hours,
and he never changed a story.
- So they also say that he changed his affidavits
three or four times,
but they forget to neglect that Leo Frank shared the times
that he said Mary came, he had four different stories.
So I put that in the revision of the book as well.
- So after the conviction,
they went through a series of appeals.
And the timeline that's confusing me a little bit,
'cause as I understand it, it sort of has the lower goes,
there was a public lynching that occurred,
now was this after or before the--
- That was in 1917, he was lynched.
He was lynched after Leo Frank, let me see,
but it was not part of that, it was after the commutation.
That's when Marietta, she was not from Marietta,
she was from Alabama, and my great-great-grandfather
was a very wealthy farmer,
and he moved the family to Alabama.
And of course, her father died,
ironically, we're facing the same crisis today,
a measles before she was born.
So that community in Marietta had 150 men gather,
and they picked 25, but they also had diversions.
They had a group camping on the lake,
they had, it was the first automobile done by lynching,
so they had mechanics on the team,
and each of them took a vow of silence
that they would never tell who it was,
that participate in the group.
But I knew over the years, people would hear my name,
and I have a list, and it's in the collection too,
of how I started, they'd just say,
"Oh, my uncle," and they were really proud of it,
it amazed me, I was like, "Wow, okay,
"I don't really understand this,"
but lynching is not good for anybody.
But that's what they did, and they were very prominent,
and well-known, now what they're saying today
is the lynch mob, it was a lynch mob
that was anti-Semitic.
What I found in the newspapers is,
they call themselves the Vigilance Committee.
- Oh, that's where the Vigilance Committee,
okay, I have the Vigilance Committee
with a little question mark beside it,
'cause I wasn't entirely sure how that fit into the story,
so that's what they called themselves.
- Yeah, so they have a planning group,
they have a planning group of 10, 15 men in the community,
and they planned it, and then they had the doers,
which actually went and got him,
and brought him back to the city of Marietta,
and they say where she was born in Marietta,
she was not born in Marietta.
They wanted to bring her to the grave,
I'm not sure about that, neither is my dad,
my daddy wasn't either, so, during his oral history,
it was great for me that I could confirm everything
about his oral history to me during COVID,
because some major things happened in my life,
and I found out that the lynching had all the members
or the Vigilance Committee is what they call themselves,
and like I said, they took that vow of silence,
but over the years, names have popped out,
well, if you go downtown Marietta,
Darn Street, Marietta, every one of those people
was involved in it, every one of them, yeah.
- So the lynching, did that occur after all
of the 13 appeals had finished?
- Yes.
- Was this at the end of the legal process?
Okay, I see, now it all makes sense, okay, fantastic.
- Now it all makes sense, it's after all the, yes.
Actually, it happened when Slayton commuted his sentence,
that's when it took off, and he was lynched in August.
- Well, you know, something to be said about public justice
when you can't get justice in the courts,
that's how it used to be anyway,
that's how it used to be.
- And that's what they felt,
they weren't murdering him,
like they're calling him murderers now,
the rabbi is here calling him, he was murdered,
he wasn't murdered, they said that they felt
that they were carrying out justice
because the governor had been bought
by the Jewish community to commute his sentence,
and remember, it was his last day in office that he did it,
last day.
I mean, aren't you suspicious?
I would be suspicious, my mind was very,
but, God, why in the hell did he do that
on the last day of office?
And he said, now remember, he was a member of the law firm
that defended Leo Frank, and that's all my daddy said,
and that's the truth.
And I even have the announcement of him joining the firm
from the newspaper accounts.
- Politicians pardoning criminals on their way out,
where have we seen that before?
- Ah, I know where that came from.
(laughing)
It just happened to us, didn't it?
(laughing)
- That's right.
So look, so we've got--
- Yeah, that lovely Dr. Anthony Fauci.
- Yes.
(laughing)
- Among many.
- Well, let me, if you don't mind,
I'd like to go over some of the--
- Of course.
- Hopes that we haven't had, we've done anti-Semitism.
There was a hoax called Hang the Jew,
and this came out in 1956 with the book,
"A Night Fell on Georgia" by Charles and Louise Samuels,
and they were, of course, the same religious faith
as Leo Frank.
They said that they were sitting in the courtroom
shouting, "Hang the Jew," and outside and all that.
Again, Steve only disputed that, said, "It never happened."
There are no newspaper accounts of any of this, none, none.
Mobbs, there were no mobs.
Let me share with you how they do the mobs at the trial.
The Tennessean in 1982 printed out a section
on a guilty man was lynched,
and what they did was they took
the original newspaper account,
they had all these people trying to get into the court,
and it says,
waiting for people to get into the,
you know, people were waiting to get into the court,
to the trial.
They changed those words and put mobs.
They changed the word.
They literally changed
the original newspaper accounts headline.
So that's what they did with the mobs,
and that's how mobs came into it,
because they literally changed over the years the headlines.
It says, "Impatient crowd."
- Just quick action thing, sorry, guys, to budging.
Lauren, could you message me back?
I think we're starting our lady space
a little early this week.
Lauren, if you hear this, be on me back.
Sorry about that, Mary, go right on.
- So what the original,
I found the original newspaper article, guys.
Surprise, surprise.
- There you go.
- It says, "Impatient crowd waiting to get in
to see Leo Frank trial."
All the current modern day people take that same picture,
and they put mobs waiting to get in the trial.
Well, in the picture, you will notice women.
I'm sorry, but women weren't part of that.
Women were not, they had, women had to be taken
out of the trial during the sexual exploitation
of the talking, they banned them from the trial.
I forgot to tell you that too.
So that's what they did,
but that's how they changed the headlines.
And it still continues today,
and I'm just awed that people don't go back,
they don't go back to the originals.
What they're doing is they're parroting,
"A little girl is dead, a night fell on Georgia,
"Leonard Dennardstein's book."
And I caught him in a really big lie
when the lawyer came out about the,
for the pardon for Leo Frank in 1986,
he didn't, he didn't read the historical resources.
So he didn't do it.
- Just to be clear for the, and for myself also,
'cause I'm having trouble on this one,
the, there's sort of like an original sin of documentation
that you said a lot of the future,
so-called future historians were using
to kind of bounce off these lies and continue them forward.
What was that, what was that original publication?
I think you said it was written by a guy,
was this the Harvard thesis of how to exonerate him?
- Yes, yes, this was the Harvard thesis.
- And that was the foundation of all of the misinformation
we're getting in the various books that were published
since then, what was the name of that person?
- Was that Clark Freshman?
- Yes, that was Clark Freshman, Harvard University.
- My notes are good.
- Okay, let me tell you what happened with him,
just since we're on his subject.
- Well, actually real quick, one second, Mary,
I just wanna rewind just a second,
so people know that the hoax that you just said,
'cause it was kind of fast, like they were,
so the hoax was that apparently people were saying,
"Hang the Jew," right?
And I just want the audience to understand that,
so that was in the court case,
they were trying to make it seem like people were saying,
"Hang the Jew," which was a complete hoax.
And then one other thing I wrote down is, in the case,
it only took the jury four hours, again,
in the Jim Crow self, to come back with the verdict,
which again shows how much evidence there was.
- Right, right, right.
It's just amazing to me that they did that.
They also, another hoax that they prevent,
excuse me, that they showed today,
or the New People writers, authors, whatever, promote,
is that he did not have a fair trial,
and that's what's happening with the exoneration today.
They're basing it on that he did not have a fair trial,
according to today's standards.
- Unbelievable.
- That's how they're doing it with the,
and the exoneration has, it has been announced
that it has been under review with Fannie Willis,
the Fulton County DA, and she was working,
well, that's a whole 'nother story,
but that's one of the hoaxes, let me get into that.
The plants we talked about, the sexual assault,
the autopsy report confirms the sexual assault.
- And you can't say he didn't have a fair trial,
'cause again, and with the grand jury afterwards,
he had four Jews on the trial, or on the grand jury.
So there you go.
- Right, right.
Bite marks came up in the '60s from a French writer,
Pierre Van Persoon, where he said
he was in Atlanta in the 1920s,
and he discovered that there was bite marks and X-rays.
Well, I did my research, I thought,
that's just no way, daddy, daddy had mentioned
that it had been talked about, but he wasn't sure,
and that's one of the things that I really wanted to confirm,
'cause I said, daddy, did she have bite marks on her?
And he said, well, according to what he heard,
now you gotta remember, we didn't have any documentation
back then, or whatever, but daddy and I,
and it was decided that what happened with the bite marks,
Georgia did not use X-rays in a case until the 1950s,
so the guy was lying through his teeth,
and he said he was threatened,
but there were no bite marks on the autopsy.
Even Governor Flayton admitted it in his commutation,
he said, there's nothing, no, 'cause it went crazy,
because they had exhumed her body for a second time
in order to verify, 'cause they heard that she was on drugs
and all this stuff.
Come on, people, come on.
It just gets so aggravating for me,
the way that they did everything back then,
and they wanna talk about sensationalizing it,
they sensationalized it against Mary Phagan.
- Absolutely.
- Go ahead, Phagan. - Just one second,
just one second, Keith.
Yeah, I did look into this, so the X-rays were used
in the early '20s and '30s, even in court submissions,
even out of Georgia, however, this case did not have
any X-rays, there was nothing registered
in any of the court documents, none of the articles,
news articles covered it, there is no mention
of X-rays being done on Mary Phagan,
and the reason for that is because it was determined
that the cause of death was strangulation,
there was no necessity to use X-rays
because her cause of death was obvious,
and it would have been up to the coroner
to decide if an X-ray was necessary,
so as you said, this French author,
who knows what his ethnicity is or what his involvement
in all this ends up being, but for whatever reason,
he just made it up, he just completely fabricated
this information. - And this was in the '60s,
he just came up with this out of nowhere?
- Yes, he wrote the book in the '60s,
but he announced that he discovered this information
in the '90s. - And you're right
to be frustrated, 'cause this is how it works,
we all know how these sorts of people work,
they'll pay money to someone to write anything,
it seems like they just kinda were throwing shit
at the wall, the old saying, every 10 years or whatever,
to kinda muddy the waters on the whole truth of the case.
- Well, that's true, and what I'm telling everybody
is I'm calling them out, and I'm not ashamed to call them out.
- I love it.
- I can't handle this joke of a rabbi
and former Governor Barnes, I have to tell you,
they're very despicable people and the tactics
that they use to do this, it's all secret.
- Didn't you say in 1995, I think it was Rabbi Labbo,
if I pronounced that right,
demanded that you guys take the sign down?
- He did, he did.
- And then they changed the marker themselves?
- Oh, that's okay, let's wait on the marker thing,
'cause that is such a, that's gonna trigger me
and I don't wanna get angry.
- My apologies.
- That's okay, but anyway, so that was another hoax,
was that the bite marks, the murder notes was another hoax,
they said that Mary wrote them,
well, she had the most beautiful handwriting,
and I know where my handwriting came from,
my handwriting is exactly like hers, y'all,
and it freaked me out when I saw,
'cause we took examples, by the way,
I have a team of people that I work with,
I don't tell who they are, but we work,
and they found that Mary's handwriting was,
that was not, she did not write them,
my dad said she didn't write them.
What's interesting about the murder notes is it says,
a tall, long, black, singer, and a night witch,
I discussed that in the revision,
the night witch theory is actually a German folklore,
and guess who's German, Leo Frank.
- Wow, interesting.
- Yeah, so that's a good,
nobody has seen that evidence before,
so I have a lot of stuff in there.
- You've got it all, my friend, you've got it all, I love it.
- And also the murder notes say,
long, tall, slim, black, Negro, okay,
Jim Connolly, Newt Lee only worked there
for a couple weeks, I believe,
Jim Connolly never met Newt Lee.
- So how would he know how to describe them, that's a--
- How did he know how to write the note?
They were dictated by Leo Frank.
Also too, my dad and I discovered that
he wrote a solid, slim, black,
black was not used by Southerners,
what was the word I said it was used?
- Colored. - Colored, yeah.
- And that was a Northern Yankee type,
what they used, verbiage that they used.
So that's who's from the North, who's, you know, Leo Frank.
- And then you said Jim Connolly didn't speak,
could you just go into that for a few seconds,
if you don't mind, the significance behind that?
- Why he did, say that again?
- I think, I believe you said Jim Connolly
didn't speak at the trial?
- Yes, he did, he did, he was on Christ examination
for three days, 16 to 17 hours.
- Oh, okay. - Yes, he did, he did.
But he did not know that Newt Lee was this tall, slim Negro,
'cause he never met him.
He worked at Knights, and Jim Connolly didn't work at Knights.
So that's another one of those hoaxes.
The Exodus of Jews, all this came out,
these were all people who are the same religious faith,
saying that after the lynching,
the Jewish people in Atlanta moved, not true, not true.
In fact-- - The Jewish population went up.
- Yeah, went up.
Okay, Knights of Mary Phagan is really interesting,
'cause even my dad said Knights of Mary Phagan to me,
but I dispelled that, and daddy, of course, has passed on,
but I know he's proud of me for coming to the truth.
They weren't the Knights of Mary Phagan.
It came from the New York Times six weeks
before the lynching of Leo Frank.
And the term was called Knights of Mary Phagan,
and like I said, they called themselves
the Vigilance Committee, not that.
So that is a total thing, and they connect
the Knights of Mary Phagan to the modern KKK, no.
It was the birth of a nation,
so I did all that research as well.
Also too, there were several judges in this case
that said, "I am one of the few people
"that know that Leo Frank is innocent of the crime
"for which he was convicted in Lynch."
So they all wrote these books in the '40s and '50s and '60s.
Go ahead.
- The original "Trust Me, Bro" of this case.
- So what they said was Arthur Powell was one of them,
and he said, "And when I die, I have a folder
"that will tell you who murdered little Mary Phagan."
Of course, that didn't happen.
His book was "I Can Go Home Again,"
and that was written in the '40s,
and then "Confessions of a Criminal Lawyer"
by Alan Lumpkin Henson, he was one of them too,
and he said the same thing.
"When I die, nothing, never found."
- Wow.
- So what we think, those judges were all in cahoots
with defense and the defense in Slayton,
and they put together a story of what happened,
but it didn't happen, who they thought could have been.
- And Mary, what was very interesting, as you said,
at one point, you were on good terms with the ADL,
I believe, for a while. - Oh, yes, yes.
In the '70s, my dad and I.
- Up until, I believe you said, 1982,
they tried for a pardon with Alonzo's testimony?
- Yes, that's when it happened, yeah.
Well, they were still, some of the people there
were still there, but they always treated me with respect,
and I treated them with respect.
I would get kooky people calling me and wanting me to,
and I would call up there and say,
"Is this a good person, or do you have any information?"
And they did, and they told me,
"You don't wanna be connected to those people."
Well--
- When you say you'd call up there,
and they, you mean the ADL you'd call up to?
- The ADL, yes, I had connections with Stuart Lewin-Grubb
and Charles Wittenstein, and there was a woman up there,
and they, Betty Kander, they were very nice to me,
and they, and I trusted them at that time in my life.
Of course, they all passed before, you know, the pardon,
so it was difficult because my dad had people coming over
and he wanted to do a Remember Mary Phagan Day.
And my dad said, "No."
He said, "You can honor her, but you can not."
And he didn't care if the KKK went, they did,
they came in '83 when that plane crash,
when one of our representatives got killed.
They came and they honored Mary, and my dad didn't stop it.
He said, "Anybody can do, they are free to honor her
as long as they don't use anti-Semitism
to promote anti-Semitism."
That's what my dad wanted.
And so, you know, that's what he did,
and he was a wonderful man and told me many things about it,
like I said, orally, so like I said,
one of the things that he had always told me
as a young girl was, "Mary quit the pencil factory,
couldn't find it for nothing."
Well, guess what?
Who founded me?
The Atlanta Constitution on April 28th
mentions that she quit work.
- I love it.
- Yes, I've, I confirmed everything of my oral history,
except for my semantics. - How he said
to form your own opinion and do your own research.
- And I did. - Boy, did you.
- Yes, I did, and he was very honored
when I wrote the book and everything.
So let me go a few more things.
Of course, you know, all the movies, the parade,
the parade is killing me right now
'cause it's going everywhere.
- Oh, we can get to that, yeah, I wrote that down, yeah.
- They're all personalized accounts.
Let me tell you one thing about the movie.
What was it, with Jack Lemmon and all them,
the murder of Mary Phagan?
I had connections with a person who was in the media,
in the media business.
He sent me the, and it was called Ballot of Mary Phagan,
that's in the collection too, by the way,
and he sent me the script.
And I called him and I said,
you know, this is "A Little Girl is Dead" book.
So I compared it and I saw my notes in the collection
of the pages, of what pages they were
in "The Little Girl is Dead" book, and they denied it.
They didn't wanna acknowledge me, of course,
'cause they were afraid I want money.
I don't want money, I just don't want you
to smear Mary Phagan, that's all, you know.
So that's what they did.
It was that book all over again, and they didn't believe it.
Ironically, when that book came,
when that mini-series came out,
I had a small publisher that believed in my story
and believed that the truth needed to be told.
And that's when my book came out,
is the same time as that.
So, and it was a best seller here in Atlanta
for a couple weeks, so that was kinda cool.
- And you're publishing that soon,
which I hope you'll give us a little bit
of an update on soon. - Yeah, I'm, yep, yep.
I've got all my chapters ready for you
to tell you how I'm doing.
So we talked about the smearing of Mary Phagan,
we talked about Tom Watson, we talked about white privilege.
Yellow journalism was a big thing from the current media.
Now, it's all about yellow journalism.
Well, when you read the articles,
I mean, they had major headlines, let me tell you,
just like any news- - I'm sorry, could you,
sorry, Mary, but before you jump forward,
can you maybe just define the term yellow journalism?
- That was gonna be my question.
- For those of us, including me,
who don't understand the term,
so I'm not trying to pretend. - Well, it's sensationalizing
the news is what my daddy told me.
That's what he said. - Oh, okay.
- And the funny part about it was
is they were very pro-Frank.
- So it's standard journalism today
is what you're trying to- - Yeah, it's like the ones today
that did all the stuff that we're hearing about,
somebody not having dementia, you know, kind of things.
And that's how they did it.
But when I read them, I just read it as news
because that's all they had was newspapers.
There was nothing out there, no radio, no nothing.
That was all it had.
And they just had some big, heavy headlines,
but that was about it.
I don't, my opinion is the media itself says,
they disagree with me, of course.
They think it was yellow journalism.
And I just say the case was sensationalized
because it was a murder of a little girl
that was raped by a sexual pervert.
Now the term is, of course, pedophile, that kind of thing.
And of course, the big story was Alonzo Mann
coming out in 1980. - So you had to fight,
essentially, it seemed like,
I'm just kind of gathering this right now
through a lot of BS, to say, and all this,
when you were younger, a little bit older after that,
but it seems like for decades,
you'd have to fight through all these, like you said,
yellow journalism type of things,
which shows more of your character
that you didn't ever break where you,
because you knew the truth and you didn't fall for anything
or get demoralized by certain things,
'cause that's definitely what they probably
wanted to do to you.
See, I just put that together now.
That's very interesting that,
it shows, again, your bravery
and how much you, again, care about
the actual truth of the case
in order to let these people tarnish it.
- Well, no, I'm not going to,
and that's why the revision is coming out.
So I've added 16 chapters,
I'm gonna review those for you,
because some of them are very critical
as to what's going on today.
So the mini series came out in 1997.
- Just one second, sorry, Mary, I don't wanna interrupt,
but I just kinda wanna, first of all,
sort of re-catch up the space,
kinda re-summarize where we're at,
for the audience's sake, as well as my own, so.
- We talked about the history of Mary Phagan,
where she was born, the events that happened,
how it happened, the trial,
what happened before the trial,
about the various accusations he put on the three individuals,
two of them black, one of them white,
that fell through, he did go to trial.
He was convicted in a jury of his peers,
appealed 13 times and failed every single appeal.
After the appeals were failed,
his sentence was about to be commuted by the governor
after receiving visitations late night
by the defense attorney.
That next morning, he was to stave off that sentencing,
and as a result, a mob formed,
and I forgot the name of the mob,
I don't wanna call it a mob, but--
- Vigilance committee.
- The vigilance committee formed,
they took Leo out of his prison cell,
took him to the place where Mary was buried,
and they executed justice upon him.
Is that a fair summary?
- Yes, and I think you should know
that the members of the vigilance committee,
there was former governor, lawyers, sheriff,
sheriff did the knot on him.
No, Phagan was involved in that vigilance committee.
- Beautiful.
And then after-- - Wow, that's,
Canadian, can you go expound like a few more seconds on that?
Just 'cause I wasn't actually even fully aware of that.
So he got convicted, he was in jail,
and then the vigilance committee broke him out
and then served justice.
- It was a military operation.
They had, it was amazing how they organized--
- Militia, I guess, is the correct--
- Is that the correct term?
Well, yes, and it was successful.
In fact, they left somebody behind
and they had to go back and get him, but yeah.
- Wow, I never knew that.
And again, we all know what Jesus says
about little children stuff,
throw a millstone around your neck
and throw it into the ocean.
So yeah, that's, I did not actually know that part of it.
That's heartwarming, to be honest.
- Yeah, and when the committee met to look at who,
they call it the lynching,
so I could call it the lynching, at the lynching,
the committees that was looking at it
were members of the vigilance committee.
I'm sorry, I just freaked out when I found out
and I just said, what?
No kidding, that's amazing.
And what really amazes me, and think about this,
the ADL put so much money into this case,
but once he was lynched, they stopped.
And my question is, why didn't they take all that money
and try to find those people?
And I think my opinion is they wanted him dead.
- Well, some of the defenders even said as much
that they're so thoroughly disgusted
by the person they were defending
that they do hope that after he gets out,
he passes, if he were to get out.
So I think there's something going on here
where there's this kind of idea
of the Jewish people have to defend each other in public,
but then in private, they wanna prosecute their own justice.
So there might be something to that.
I don't give that much credence
'cause I don't think they would have formed
their own vigilance committee
and dealt with it within their community,
but at least ostensibly, that is sort of the behavior
that we're supposed to expect.
- Right, so with the vigilance committee,
it was very quiet until the 1960s
and somebody contacted Bill Kenney
who worked for the Marietta Daily Journal
and he told him and he had a list.
- Oh wow, was that ever reported
or was that kept under wraps?
- No, it was reported when the mini series came out.
Bill Kenney did say that and he told me,
he said, "There's a list."
And of course, my first question was,
is somebody, was a Phagan involved in there?
And he said, "No, no Phagan."
I said, "Okay."
- Well, if anyone had a right to join that committee
or even lead it, it would have been the Phagan family.
So obviously credit to you guys
for taking the moral high ground on this.
Although I think if it were me personally,
I might have been involved in the committee myself,
but it is what it is, right?
Some people believe in the peace of the dead.
- Yeah, well, Grandmother Phagan's,
great-grandmother Phagan's brother was part of the group.
- Well, what was interesting too,
a few minutes ago you said that,
they love to use terminology.
You said back then they called, I forget what you said,
but now obviously he would be called a pedophile.
- Right, a sexual pervert is what,
that's the whole, - Oh, okay.
- In all the books for the early times.
So until like the, before until the 1956 book
by Knightville on Georgia, everything was sexual pervert.
And then it kind of changes,
as we change in time and everything, so.
- So that leads me to the next part of the summary,
which is after the trial and the lynching,
there was sort of a bit of a lull or dead period in this,
as far as I understand it,
and then came out the Harvard essay
on how they could exonerate Leo Frank
without challenging his guilty verdict.
And that happened mostly behind closed doors,
if I'm to understand this correctly.
- Yeah, you are correct.
- This was in secret, the transcripts
for the various things that happened in the courts
or in the, I guess in the filings,
because it wasn't actually in the courtroom.
- What year was this then?
Or what decade? - This was in 1980,
well, in 1982 Alonzo Mann came up
and that's when three Jewish communities
filed for a exoneration for Leo Frank
based on Alonzo Mann.
- And so this is the Clark freshman guy.
- Well, he comes later, he comes later.
- Oh, okay, okay. - Okay, so he comes later.
So, I read it in the paper and I said,
"Daddy, well, I'm coming out."
He said, "Go ahead, call me."
So I called Mike Wing on the board.
They hadn't, he thought I was lying.
He said, "You've got to be kidding me, young lady.
"You are not Mary Phagan."
I said, "Yes, I am."
I said, "I'm the great niece of Namesick."
They had no idea the Phagan family existed.
The immediate Phagan family.
She was my brother's, I mean, my grandfather's brother,
sister, I mean, sister.
He protected her 'cause she was the baby of the family.
So I called him and I said, "Well, you let me know."
And that's when it turned with ADL with me,
was in 1982, because they did everything in secret.
- The uncle I have writing down right here, 1982,
they tried for a pardon with Alonzo's testimony,
parentheses, Mary was on good terms with the ADL
up until that point.
- Yes, and that is true.
And then in 1983, in December, I was on the way to Michigan
to visit Bernard's family.
They announced on CBS News that the pardon was denied
and this state went nuts because they said he did not,
the evidence that Alonzo Mange would not have changed
the outcome of the verdict.
Then right after that, in 1983, '84,
Clark Freshman comes in and they start working
with the Georgia Pardons and Peralts Boards
and he comes up with this idea that,
"Well, we can give them a pardon,
"but we can do it without addressing
"his guilt or innocence."
- Oh yeah, that's very important.
- Yeah, so what happened was in March of 1986,
they announced the pardon,
the posthumous pardon on March 11th,
they called my dad and I the day before
and told us that they were going to pardon Leo Frank
with a posthumous, my dad said,
"Well, if that's what you all feel like you need to do,"
but he said, "It will never change
"the Vagan family's position."
And my dad also, by the way, in 1982,
we were allowed to go in front of the board.
They allowed us to because they were so overwhelmed
with the fact that we were related so close.
- And so real quick, who was this Alonzo guy
and where did he come from?
- He was an office boy of Leo Frank's
and he only worked two Saturdays.
- Okay, interesting, thank you.
And the things that the Jewish community did,
I have his testimony of his, oh God,
and he was in his 80s and something like that
and of course, they coerced him,
they had to fill in the blanks for him.
What they did to that man was a shame.
Today, they would be convicted of doing that
for a person, for example, like with dementia or Alzheimer's.
It's something that our society does not take.
We don't like that.
- Oh yeah, people definitely don't like that.
And then with the Clark Freshman Harvard thing,
I believe you said they worked in secret
for up to two years, I think you said?
- Uh-huh, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
- Wow, and that was to get a pardon
in their working in secret.
- Yes, so that's what happened with that
and then things were very, very quiet
and then the movie came, '87.
Then in 1980 now, Dale Schwartz, who was one,
he just passed not too long ago, about a year or two ago,
he and I were on good terms.
And he came out in 1989 and he started the revisionist,
I believe, of Judge Run's statement to the jury.
He used what you said earlier about lying filthy,
mm, to the, and that's not what Judge Run said.
So that's one of my chapters, I call him out for that.
That's the one I'm, and of course,
it's the Atlanta Jewish Times.
It's always something with a Jewish community article
that they come out with that.
Then in 1995, well, 1994,
the city of Marietta decided they wanted historical markers
and they called my father and said,
"We'd like to have a marker for Mary's grave."
My dad said, "No, I don't want it."
He said, "She doesn't need it."
- So that was in '84 or '94? '84, right?
- '94. - '94.
So, and he said, "No, she has a beautiful,
it's a beautiful marble, it's just so gorgeous out there
and it's just so peaceful and it is a beautiful grave."
And he said, "No, I don't think she needs a marker."
And he said, "Why do you want to have a marker?"
And he said, "Well, that's the most visited grave,
that's the most visited grave in the cemetery."
And that's why they wanted to,
they wanted to honor Mary Phagan.
Well, Mayor Joe MacWilson, and he was a good guy,
called my dad and said,
"I believe strongly that Mary needs a marker
and I would like you to reconsider.
Would you reconsider if we write it up
and you approve what's written?"
And my dad said, "Well, you know,
I really don't want a marker on her grave.
I'm afraid that people might damage it,
but that has never happened."
In the 112 years she's been buried there.
It's been wreaths, flowers, pennies, toys from kids, letters.
I mean, it's just been a beautiful thing for me
when I go visit the grave to see all those things there.
And so daddy said, "Okay, we will do that."
So they did.
And then they put it up.
And then in 1995, the rabbi comes,
it was very secretly done.
But anyway, the rabbi gets up in a meeting,
Rabbi Stephen LeBeau gets up in a meeting and says
that the marker at Mary Phagan's grave has to go.
It offends the Jewish people.
- I believe you said in Jake Shields,
he demands that it was taken down.
- He demanded it be removed.
- And I have Governor Barden's written next to him.
Was he mixed up with the rabbi?
Yeah, okay.
- Yeah, he is now, but he wasn't back then.
Okay, he didn't come into the picture in 2015.
- So yeah, so he stands up a rabbi and demands it be removed.
- Yeah, he demands it be removed.
So what they did, and this is what I'm calling it,
and I think that you would agree with me on this.
I call it the secret, deceitful, underhanded,
revisionist political marker change at Mary's grave
by the parks and tourism
and misrepresentation of historical sources.
And it was done by the tourism committee,
the parks community, Marietta City Council,
and the Jewish community.
So I get a phone call from a friend
and she says, "You need to go visit the cemetery."
I said, "Okay, what's up?"
She said, "You need to go visit the cemetery.
That's all I'm gonna tell you, Mary."
And I wanted to divulge her name
because she was part of the government back then,
and I don't wanna, and she has passed,
so I just really don't wanna say her name.
But she did call me.
So I go, and they changed the damn marker.
I looked up at that and I thought, "That's not the marker.
What the heck happened here?"
So I called Bill Kinney.
I called Bill Kinney and said, "Come over here."
- Yeah.
- The marker for those, it's kinda like the headstone.
It is a message left in monument or in memorial
to the dead.
And Mary, do you wanna maybe tell the audience
what the marker said originally
and then what they changed it to?
- Oh God, I have to find it.
I didn't-- - And so real quick, Mary,
so they demanded that it was taken down and then,
so they were probably, I'm assuming,
not given the green light to take it down.
- I was all doing it in secret. - And then they did it themselves.
- Yes, they did it themselves.
Well, the guy in charge of that said that he felt pressured
by the Jewish community to change the marker.
- But let's just put this in context.
Imagine that there is a Chinese-owned company
and your son or daughter was raped and murdered
by this Chinaman, and then years later,
this Chinese advocacy group comes along and says,
"That's xenophobic.
Whatever marker you put on your child's grave is xenophobic."
And so without telling you, without addressing you,
without seeking your permission,
they changed the marker on your family's grave
to something that suits their political interest.
That would be the exact same thing--
- That's the political corruption.
That's the political corruption.
And here's what the marker originally said, and it's sweet.
Celebrated in song as little Mary Phagan
after her murder on Confederate Memorial Day, 1913 in Atlanta.
The grave was marked by the C.S.
the Confederate Southern Association Veterans in 1915.
The tribute was by Tom Watson set in 1933.
Leo Frank sentenced to hang, granted clemency
before lynching August 17th, 1915.
His 1986 pardon based on the state's failure
to protect him apprehend killers, not on Frank's innocence.
That's what the original marker said.
Now, here's what the marker says now.
It says, "Celebrated in song as little Mary Phagan
after her murder at age 13 on April 26, 1913 in Atlanta.
The trial and conviction of Leo Frank was controversial,
as was the..."
I can't see this. I got to get up.
"As was the..." What is it?
I can't see it. Hang on.
"As was the exoneration of the death sentence
four days before Confederate Memorial Day."
And then on June 23rd, he was abducted from prison
and granted a pardon on May, August 7th, and lynched.
And he was lynched.
In 1986, he was issued a pardon.
Bamboo is only to the public, in my opinion.
I mean, it's just so disrespectful.
This is the one...
It's disrespectful, thank you. Thank you.
It's disrespectful, it's dishonorable.
It's almost everything repulsive to anyone
with a shred of moral decency.
At the very least, even if they had grievances,
they should need the permission of the family
to change anything that has to do with a memorial
for a family member.
That is despicable behavior.
And honestly, this is part of the story that frustrates me.
Six, seven decades? And then they changed it?
Yeah, they changed... Well, it came up in 1995,
and they changed it in...
No...
No, the marker was only up a year.
Oh, OK, OK. Yeah, it was only up a year.
And then... So then I'll tell you,
'cause what I did with it, too, I just...
I got angry, and then I did something,
and sometimes I wonder if I did the right thing or not,
but what I did in 2016,
because I had to wait for certain people to pass,
I put my own marker up.
Next to her... That's what I put in parentheses.
Next to her. 1995, he demands sign taken down,
they change the marker themselves, then I put in parentheses,
but "Badass Mary put her own up herself!"
Exclamation point, exclamation point.
That's what I did, and of course, there's still things wrong on that,
because COVID came in 2020,
and I didn't know about the Knights of Mary Phagan,
so I said the Knights of Mary Phagan in there.
So, I've got to go back and correct that one thing.
And... But, you know, I talk about her.
I talk about how beautiful she was, she had dimples, she was blue,
she was sweet.
I finally put her personality in there.
You know what I'm saying?
And wanted people to know that she was just a little girl.
She was just a little girl. She was not a woman.
A voluptuous woman, like they're calling her now.
A voluptuous seductress at the age of 13.
I mean, leave it to the Jews to paint a 13-year-old
as a voluptuous seductress, but sorry,
I don't want to cast my eyes too hard on this,
but it is just so disgusting.
You hear these things, and you have to question,
you just shake your head.
Yeah, I'm shaking my head right now.
So, then something really happened really good,
and this is Chapter 20, it's the 100-year anniversary of her murder.
The team that I have now, we made everything digital.
Everything went online.
All the records and all that kind of stuff.
Transcripts of the newspapers,
we transcribed by hand the newspaper accounts,
because I am not going to let that information go awry,
like everything else has with the case.
You know, things disappear and all that stuff, and it's out there.
So, that's what we did in 2013.
Well, the 2015, the 100-year anniversary after Leo Franklidge was lynched.
Oh, my God, that rabbi, and this is where the governor comes in.
They had meetings at the temple van, whatever it was, you know, whatever,
saying he was innocent and all this stuff.
Rabbi wrote a letter to the newspaper saying
that he needed to be exonerated and all this kind of stuff.
And so, that's what they did with that.
And then, Governor Deal came in, Nathan Deal, and I wrote a letter to him,
and I said, you know, he has no relation to Little Mary Phagan.
Why, who are they to judge the Phagan family's story?
Why are they doing this?
And Nathan Deal said, you know, we've already,
that boat has already sailed.
So, he was very upset.
He tried to get a petition.
He couldn't even get 200 names on the petition, the rabbi, you know,
but yet, that's what happened there.
Then, the big year comes.
So, from 2015 to 2019, and at a dedication in 2018, they had to rededicate the marker
that was originally done because they built a road,
they built an expressway over where he was lynched.
Then, all of a sudden, I get this phone call again,
Mary, you need to look at the news.
I said, what do you mean?
She said, you just need to look at it.
The Fulton County Conviction Integrity Unit was established to exonerate Leo Frank in 2019,
and Governor Barnes was in it.
The judges were in it.
Lawyers were in it as part of the committee to get this exoneration.
Dale Schwartz was in it.
I love this person called Van Pearlberg.
He was Jewish.
Of course, those two were Jewish, but, you know, I didn't judge people by their religion.
I judged people by their character and by dignity and respect, as I was taught.
And so I had a lot of respect for those two, and both of them are gone now.
So, you know, that's when Governor Barnes came in and, oh, he went on this tour thing and all the newspapers.
And then what happened was, Paul Howard got defeated by Fonny Willis.
And so it's been silent since then.
And then Roy Barnes starts his campaign.
In 2019, he goes to the Mercer Law School.
Of course, they had to tell the students, you better show up.
It's the former Governor Barnes, you know, of course.
And what they were surprised at, I attended.
I said, you know, I have had enough, Bernard, that's my husband.
I said, I've had enough.
I even flew to Savannah to hear Steve Fonny speak.
I said, I'm not going to, they're going to see me in that audience.
And he said, good for you, go.
And, you know, I flew out there, rented a car, did all kinds of things because I wanted to hear Steve Fonny's side
because, you know, he's the one that said there was no hang that you, there was no anti-Semitism, all that kind of stuff.
But yeah, he's the one that, you know, says that smears Mary Phagan.
So then, and the chapter 25 is going to be about Jonathan Greenblatt.
I don't know if you know what happened then, but it started in 2021 when the community notes
and people were writing about how Leo Frank was guilty and 99.9% of the comments were that he was guilty.
And it continued in 2022, it continued in 2023, and it's continued till today.
And that to me was just a big thing because he said that he was pardoned.
They leave it as he was given a posthumous pardon.
And they always, always said, yeah, but they didn't tell you it was valid addressing his guilt or innocence.
So I didn't have to do anything back then.
Other people did it for me, which was wonderful.
I felt like the truth was coming out.
Does that make sense?
Absolutely.
And one thing I wrote down, I believe it got you emotional in the Jake interview.
You said something happened in April 26, 2019.
Mm-hmm.
That's when they announced the Correct Viction Integrity Unit on the day she was murdered.
Oh, okay.
That's disrespect to the family.
Danny Willis first off and she gave you nothing back?
Nothing.
And then Roy Barnes, you said was her attorney as well?
Yes, he's the attorney with the Georgia Senate Committee.
Funny how all that works.
Yes, anyway, I'm telling you.
So then she's being investigated.
But yet they had the parade musical here at the Fox Theater in Atlanta in April,
and they announced that the case is under review.
And that's all that's going on with it.
And like Pete, go ahead.
Well, the parade, could you, so I wrote something down about 2015 Coke bottles and then the parade.
Could you explain what happened at the parade?
Because I believe something offended you because I think you said afterwards a UK reporter came up to you and apologized.
Yes, that's true.
So in 2015, my sister and I attended a parade here at Theater Square in Marietta.
And Alfred Urie is the writer of the parade and his father was Moses.
No, who is his father?
His uncle was related with the owner of the National Pencil Company.
Okay, so that that tells you that story where that's coming from.
And I had a reporter from England that came over to interview me and he saw all my materials and everything.
And he was just so impressed.
He said, this is just amazing.
He said, I never heard any of the stuff that you were telling me.
And he said, what you are showing me is incredible evidence that all these things that we've been printing over the years are false.
So we go attend the parade and during halftime, he comes to me and he said, Mary, I'm so ashamed for how they're depicting your family.
He said, this is so embarrassing for me to be a reporter, but I have to tell you that I feel for you.
And I know that eventually truth will win for you.
And that's what happened at that because I wanted to go yell and, you know, scream at Uri.
And I went down and saw Uri and I just said, you have deeply, deeply offended our family.
And I walked away and he writes it up.
They write it up in the newspaper in her Southern drawl, you know, all this kind of stuff, you know, in her sweet little Southern bell comes and tells him, you know, tells him that tells me that.
And I just poo pooed it kind of thing.
But I really did.
I wanted him to know.
So my sister, Phyllis, she said, do it go go.
So she encouraged me to do it.
She said, this is our family that they're talking about.
And that reporter did what he did.
She even said, see, it's not everybody that believes these people.
Phyllis, Mary, you know, yeah, that must have felt so good.
It did. It really did.
And what was the I don't know if you just got into it.
I'm sorry. What was the Coke bottle thing about he had Atlanta Coca-Cola company made bottles that said Leo Frank was innocent.
Oh, my goodness.
They had to discuss that t-shirts.
They have all the stuff.
That's why you had some righteous anger at that point, you know, and I, you know, I am angry at what they're doing because they're showing my family disrespect and they do not acknowledge the living.
They only wanted, you know, they don't even acknowledge her half the time.
They don't even put her name and stuff, you know, you're going to preach into the choir.
Not no, obviously, I mean, your family's had the worst experience out of probably anybody in this space, but our group and this this audience that you're speaking to is intimately familiar with the ADL and their actions there.
They call themselves a sort of anti defamation league, but all they do is defame slander lie and write wrap up smears.
And one thing that is that has struck me is so obvious is that this whole situation has been almost 100 year long wrap up smear that has been going on and perpetrated by the ADL on your family and actually exemplifies perfectly how the wrap up smear even works.
So it is you're a living testament to the things that we speak about on a regular basis when it comes to censorship and the kind of revisionist history and this kind of nepotistic religious bias that certain these certain groups have.
They're willing. Yeah, their willingness to be shameless, to have no honor and no dignity in their zeal to defend each other, even when they know that they're guilty.
And that's what's so frustrating for us to see that a group like the ADL has so much power that they can even rewrite history on someone that has been murdered and then write plays, coke bottles, t shirts.
I mean, this is disgusting. They're capitalizing, literally capitalizing. Exactly.
Well, and censorship, speaking of censorship, they censored my book and they censored the Nation of Islam book. So in 2019 to combat this, I started my own website, http://www.littlemaryPhagan.com.
And Dorsey's that's all there now. They can't get rid of it anymore. And they have really been attacking my website recently a lot. Of course they have.
And I wanted to think it's from Israel. We think it's from Israel from.
Oh, it definitely it definitely is. I wanted to tie into the parallel of because I'm 99.9% sure the ADL was created shortly after the this that whole incident.
And then, you know, to tie it into today, now we have people like, you know, myself, not from them, but other people on that have been on here on JQ radio, other great people, you know, like Stu Peters and official 1984.
And many people that Jake Shields, another one who are literally just great human beings that just want to get the truth out.
So, you know, you can the crazy parallel is this whole case, you know, with Mary Phagan now has turned into the last four years. It's, you know, everyone's a white supremacist from the ADL.
Everyone's a Nazi. Everyone's this and that. And it's like, well, you know, for what?
And especially the last 18 months, like I've spoken out and I know Canadian has everyone everyone in here has on the genocide going on in Palestine.
And they'll say that we're, you know, not they haven't came at us specifically people again, like Stu and Jake Shields are quote unquote Nazis or white supremacists because they're like, you guys are killing children.
Can you just stop doing that? And it just, you know, it shows how the beginning of it started with your family.
And now here we are throughout the whole Biden administration.
It was, you know, white supremacist, the FBI was sending undercover agents to churches to watch Catholics. And I'm a Catholic. I grew up Catholic, you know, identify as Christian.
Now, you know, they're sending to watch people at churches and all this stuff.
And it's just interesting to me how it all ties in together, you know, and like you just said, they're still attacking your website and stuff.
It just shows they will not let it go.
They really know the reprehensible to they just will not let it go attacking that way.
But we really are so disrespectful.
Like, yeah, really is it so crazy how disrespectful it is.
But they just there is some chutzpah in the Jewish community.
I'll give them that they just they say will not stop on certain things.
And it's not even like this is, you know, oh, OK, there maybe there was some mix up in the beginning or whatever.
No, it was again in four hours, the jury deliberated in in the Jim Crow South when they could have blamed a black man, but they saw the evidence.
And, you know, it's not some like little case.
It was rape and murder of a 13 year old girl.
And they're still trying to this day, like you said, Jonathan Greenblatt and them to defend it and to try to switch the narrative, which is just to me,
it was just what's so it's just so beyond sickening to me.
It just really is. It really is.
So, you know, my position and the team's position about the exoneration that's supposedly going to take place is that it's not an unsolved murder,
because when I asked for the records, they said that it hasn't been they're still they're investigating it.
And these are lawyers that have written these things to me that said that, you know, you should not what they're doing is they're just playing their tricks,
lawyery tricks, you know, stuff like that. He was convicted. He has never been exonerated. His possible mispartan failed to state that he was not guilty of the murder.
There's no legal justification for any investigation at the present.
And the sham investigation should not give any excuse for violating the open records request.
So beautiful. Look, I we have I'm not quite sure how much longer we're going to be given because occasionally our subsequent hosts allow us to go over time.
And sometimes they do not. So we'll see how that goes.
What I want to do is I'm not sure.
So let's let's maybe solve that in the group chats ourselves rather than litigated in because we only ostensibly only have 18 minutes left.
And if we have more than great, but I want to try and get through a couple final things and then open up for questions if we can have the time.
So, Mary, you've alluded to on the Jake Shields podcast that your book is in the process of being edited,
that you've already submitted it and that you're it's basically in its final stages.
Yes, you mentioned that there's new evidence come to light on various elements.
Some of the I think you mentioned something about the planted shirts, the markers on the grave being you have some details on the council's meetings.
I don't want to ask you to spill the beans because obviously I want we want people to go and purchase the book and support you.
But maybe you could share a little bit about what's coming up in this book.
What what we should be looking forward to.
What new light are you shedding on this on this topic?
The truth and and physical evidence and the newspaper accounts,
all that all the materials that I have in the collection are the original materials.
I have original materials now of all the magazines by Tom Watson and all the books.
I have a library of all almost every book that has been written on this case and a library book and you can go through them and I you'll see all my marks and stuff in the books and say,
not true, you know, that kind of thing. So I just present our view and just saying that how this world are these world of people the ADL the governor and I'm calling them out the rabbi.
How they and finally will us and how they're just politically corrupt and trying to exonerate this man that was so damn guilty.
Beautiful and look before we jump I'm going to so first of all audience members, if you do have questions for Mary, you can go ahead and start to request for speaker positions and we'll start bringing you up.
Mary, I want to just say thank you so much for coming to share this with us and maybe Keith has a few additional questions.
I'll give it I'll give the mic over to him in a minute.
He can he can ask away.
Well, I want you to know this is very hard for me to do because I've always been very silent and just I've never introduced myself.
Hello, my name is Mary Phagan.
Can I'm the great decent namesake a little Mary Phagan that is not my personality at all, you know, and my real life the real Mary Phagan King is the one who taught visually impaired and deafblind students for 30 years in the state of Georgia.
That's who I really am.
But everywhere I went guess who asked me the question I had superintendents singing the song to me.
I have the ballad of Mary Phagan the records and everything here.
It just never left me and I finally realized that I have to merge these two.
I can't be separate.
I am who I am and now is the time to really speak out against all this, you know, this tragedy is horrible, horrible murder and the people that are denying it.
And because they're so powerful and wealthy, they feel like this man needs to be exonerated when he was just guilty as soon.
Well, I obviously I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart and bless you for coming up and speaking out.
I think you're channeling something that is not just has to do with your family, but millions of people have been impacted by the ADL.
They write policy that gets put into law.
They advocate for the censorship and shutting down of various people who simply want to speak about the geopolitical reality of our world, the various socio economic problems that we have and the various involvements these small groups have in these problems.
And so you're you're sort of a kind of almost a martyr in a way, or at least you're Mary Phagan was your great aunt.
But in many ways, you've kind of martyred your life into this cause as well.
And so for that, I'm deeply appreciative.
I think everyone here is deeply appreciative and I want you to know that you have our support.
Thank you. You know, I've I've posted your I've reposted your post where you mentioned your website into the space. So for those of you in the audience who want to find the website, it's now the leftmost post in the space.
Definitely go and show show your support to her.
Make sure you give her a follow.
Reshare some of her stuff.
Check out our website.
And when the new book releases, Mary, where can we find it?
Because you mentioned this has been censored already.
Are there particular platforms you're publishing on or is this going to be available widespread?
It would not be censored.
I really haven't talked to the editor about it because we're not sure how we want to do it yet.
But, you know, the thing about it is it will go on the website.
Oh, by the way, my book, the first book is free.
I don't charge for the book.
You know, it's free, but I'm going to have to I'm thinking that we're going to do print on demand.
And that's where your people and everybody comes in is to buy the truth.
And then if there's enough funds, I would like to hire a lawyer to kind of combat this if I can.
So certainly if you if you have a donation link, I mean, aside from buying the book, which I think everybody should do once it comes out,
I'm certainly going to try and acquire a copy myself.
I recommend if you don't already have one to set up some kind of donation link,
and if you do send that over and we'll make sure to get that posted and circulate that among our community,
because if you need money to legally represent yourself against the ADL, this is the type of cause I think a lot of people can get behind.
There's only a few cases that have ever been successfully prosecuted against the ADL.
Another one is going on right now. I forget the gentleman's name, but you're but if you ever get into any kind of legal dispute,
I think this would be something I myself personally would fall over myself trying to get a little bit of money your way to support that.
And I think a lot of people are the same.
So yeah, a lot of my team members are saying don't worry.
We're behind you on this and I just got to find somebody in Georgia that's willing to that despises Governor Barnes and the rabbi and ADL,
you know, to because they're so powerful, you know, and I don't know.
By the way, you should know that Governor's Barnes wife, Marie, as he calls her, Marie,
her grandfather was part of the vigilance committee that lynched Frank.
I think what we should put on his law firm, we should put a sign out there that his wife's mother grandfather was a member of the vigilance committee that had Leo Frank.
See, and they just they they get all these people that are like so powerful and everything.
There's a lot of people, though, that are very disappointed in Roy Barnes.
But, you know, I'm sure he can say all the bad things about me he wants to, too.
But this is not his place. This is not his place.
And neither is it the rabbi's. The rabbi is not. He says he's his rabbi, Leo Frank's rabbi.
No, he's not. You know, so you have to do all that.
But I don't know about the funding thing. I might look for a grant or something like that.
You know, I just but I want to sue them.
I do. I want to sue Governor Barnes, the rabbi, the bar Bonnie Willis for political corruption in establishing the Conviction Integrity Unit.
And I think it's important that they realize that I'm not going away.
Well, we'll definitely get you connected.
I know I know there's a few people that are regular speakers here that do have some affiliation with various legal representations.
So perhaps we can arrange something.
Maybe maybe when you come back, I hear that you're coming back in July.
Right. Or is it June? I think it's June. You're coming back in June.
Yes. Next month to to speak with our ladies night.
So that's going to be an exciting space as well. And I look forward to that.
Sorry to steal the thunder from the ladies night. There's a bit of a miscommunication.
We didn't know there was a dual booking, but we're more than happy to have you back.
And I look forward to you coming here and sharing more than you already have with with the ladies.
So that's it's going to be a great space.
And if you do manage to set up some kind of donation link, maybe it's a give send go or it's some kind of crypto donation.
You'll have to talk with your team and see what makes the most sense for you guys.
But we certainly will be happy.
We don't do this for everybody, but we're very happy to share this donation link and and the cause to support that you need.
Well, I do have a couple of the team that are doing the Bitcoin with me for the future.
That's so I just want to bring this out. This is not going to go away.
I am doing putting money allocation and we've determined I've got to write it in my trust.
I got to redo my will.
We are setting up a funding process for this to continue and the website to continue and to hire people to run it when we're gone.
So it's not going to end. It's not going to end.
You know, so I'm proud of that. I'm proud that I can do that financially.
I'm proud that I can get some of that going in and preserve the future of the right future, the truth for the truth.
Thank you so much for that.
Thank you. We've got no problem.
No, we've got a few minutes left.
So Tanner has come up with his hand up. Tanner, welcome to the space brother.
Thanks for jumping down quickly and letting us get set up.
Sorry for cutting you off at the end of your hosting session earlier.
If you got a couple questions for Mary and Amanda's up here, too.
So go ahead, Tanner, and then we'll jump to Amanda.
Hopefully we get the we get a little courtesy from her.
Yeah, absolutely. No problem.
I I tuned in about half way through, but I've been looking I was like researching a bunch of stuff.
She's talking about and tried to like catch up on the stuff I may have missed, but it's super interesting.
I'm from I guess I heard you say at one point you said she was actually from Alabama, but I my parents both grew up in Marietta, Georgia.
I went to high school there, which is why I found it crazy.
I had no idea this ever had happened.
I was looking it up, so I found it. I found it very interesting.
Do you are you from Georgia?
Are you guys from Georgia? You said you guys are from Alabama.
No, the family moved to Alabama from Georgia.
Georgia has always been their home, but I was not born in Georgia because my dad was a military brat.
I was born on a Washington Air Force Base in Moses Lake, Washington State.
So I didn't know any of my family.
I was going to say there was.
I think there's a really bad ass lawyer named Lynn would who actually.
He filed against the federal government back in like 2020 and he.
He like had to give up his law license because of it, but I was just my whole point is he would have been a super cool guy to help you out if he was still practicing law.
But that is super wild.
I look forward into looking at your book and you said the second when there's a first one in the second one that hasn't been released yet.
Right.
There's like 19 new chapters that I'm adding to the book of all the things that happened since 1986.
Wow, super cool.
And then I'm sorry if you guys are repeating yourself, but where where will that be?
Where will people be able to find that I'll be announcing it on my website when it's available http://www.littlemaryPhagan.com.
Awesome sweet.
Well, yeah, thanks for sharing.
Thanks for coming today.
It was a it was a super interesting and I hope yeah, I hope this this goes your way with ADL because they are horrible and they're they're behind all these freaking woke campaigns to cancel people.
You know, they're that's their Forte.
So these people are just horrendous.
I've been very fortunate that they have not canceled me.
They have not come after me and somebody said why would they come after you a little girl is murdered.
So I'm just waiting.
Absolutely.
I haven't heard anything negative.
So I guess, you know, it's just my time and it's the right time.
What's happening is they're they're building the foundation of their wrap-up smear.
Right.
So they're just putting out a bunch of BS saturating the market with lies.
They don't want to address you directly because that would mean that they would have to provide evidence for all of their claims which might break down some of their.
Yeah, and so when you have the evidence that's given to the final rule is the Innocence Project.
It's all one sided.
That's it.
Nothing from the family.
Nobody can combat it.
It's just a group of people that are going to decide and you know, they all been bought and paid for so isn't she being removed or something.
She's in like hot water herself.
I thought she is and Governor Barnes is her lawyer and I think that's political corruption again there.
But the Georgia Senate Committee is the one that's looking and looking at her.
So but they don't have any legalese to you know, actually get rid of her.
I don't think so.
I see.
Well, it is very it's very corrupt around those parts.
So again, good luck and thank you so much for sharing your story.
Thank you.
Amazing.
Thank you Tanner.
Great questions.
Appreciate you coming up and asking we're going to jump to Amanda.
Thank you for joining us.
I know you're going to be one of the upcoming hosts in the future space.
So hopefully you I don't I didn't steal too we didn't steal too much of your thunder.
But so I would appreciate you coming up here.
Oh, no, no, not at all.
I'm not I'm not one of the hosts.
So no, I'm sorry.
I thought you were co-hosting that session.
No, no, but I just wanted to say to Mary I've been listening to the whole thing.
It's you know, I'm a student of history.
I always will be it was riveting.
I'm so sorry you have to go through all of this.
But you know, I'm sure she is very proud of you for what you're doing.
I just wanted to say I might one of my hobbies is is researching President Johnson LBJ and
what I find very interesting most of my research comes from the from Jewish newspapers.
This one in particular the Jewish News of Northern California written November 2008.
So President Johnson was born in Stonewall, Texas not far from me.
Leo Frank was born in Cuero, Texas, which isn't very far.
I can't put a link between the two families yet.
But you know when you read these articles, these are not very old articles.
You know, it's talks about his Aunt Jessie Hatcher who was a major influence on LBJ
and was a member of the Zionist Organization of America and the one of the reasons
Lyndon Johnson became very pro-Israel as a young boy his grandfather and his father.
They call them Big Sam and Little Sam.
They worked very hard to seek clemency for Leo Frank and the article goes on to say,
you know, the Jewish victim of a blood libel in Atlanta.
Frank was lynched by a mob in 1915 and the Ku Klux Klan came to Texas threatening to kill the Johnsons.
You know, and Johnson always says that the Leo Frank's lynching was the source of his opposition to both anti-Semitism.
I mean, when you know his father and grandfather were very instrumental in helping to set up the ADL.
So, you know, you've got somebody even the president of the United States who was corrupt and keeping this a secret.
And Johnson still has supporters here in Texas.
So I wish you well. I'm going to say prayers for you.
Thank you.
Yes, definitely.
Thank you so much for this space and thanks Keith and Canadian.
This has been absolutely wonderful.
But Mary, I will keep you in my prayers.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Amazing.
Well, look guys, we've got technically three minutes left until our official time slot has expired.
So I don't want to overcommit our time.
And of course, I don't want to overcommit Mary's time.
So Mary, if you've got more you'd like to say, of course, you're always welcome to keep going.
We haven't received any word that we need to immediately get out yet, but I also don't want to speak for your time.
So whatever you'd like to do from this point forward is completely okay.
If you like to, you know, take your leave and maybe go get something to drink, take a little bit of a break.
I know it takes a lot out of you and things got a little emotional, especially over the...
Yeah, well the caregiver came in with my dinner and brought me a drink and everything while she's watching my husband.
And he's been wanting to come down here.
He says, I'll tell him their story now.
But I think I will take a leave because it's been two hours for him.
So I just want to make sure I have to get start getting him ready for bed and things like that.
Well, look, I think all of us get a little emotional when we hear something like them trying to form a committee to exonerate a man.
And the committee forms on the day of the murder of your ancestor.
There's something deeply, deeply disrespectful, dishonorable there.
But obviously, there's so much to this story that really tugs at the heartstrings.
And it also just aligns with what we've been seeing in modern day time.
So your story is not just for your own personal sake important, but it actually represents an ongoing struggle we have as a nation,
as a people in various nations, I should say, with the ongoing censorship and this kind of one sided bourgeois,
tyrannical addressing of history, of the facts, of even the justice system itself seems to be pliable to their interests.
So more power to you. Honestly, we keep you in our prayers.
We appreciate you coming out here and on behalf of everyone here, thank you so much for sharing your time and your story with us.
We look, I think I'm sorry that if I kind of over talked everybody because I just, you know,
gets excited and then I have to the memory just point picks another memory.
So I said I have ADHD, you know, so it's just really just gets all in there and I get I have to go back and forth.
And, you know, I even have it all written out and I didn't follow it.
Trust me, I'm the same.
It's a natural episode. I just want you to know that I had it all written out what I was going to say, what I was going to do and nothing except the hoaxes did come out.
So that's important.
I'm the same way. And when you're speaking from the heart, sometimes you can't contain what you want to say.
Sometimes it just has to come out the way it comes out.
So we really appreciate it.
It was it was an amazing interview. You gave so much information.
I've got so many notes that I need to go through now on top of the notes have already had before.
So there's a lot to learn here.
But really again, once again, appreciate it.
I appreciate you coming here.
And of course, thank you.
Can I ask you a question real quick?
Is there any way that we can post this to the website or do you want my team to do it?
Can my team send me the directions?
I'll let the the curator for the website post it.
So you're on rumble, right?
Yeah, we're going to have the we're going to try and get this segment clip specifically.
Sometimes the clips go a little long and you'd have to do some editing to cut your side.
But I'm going to try and get this hosted individually and then I'll DM you the link to the rumble space
and then you can download that video from rumble and do whatever you'd like with it.
Oh, thank you very much.
I appreciate your permission.
That will help a lot because we have a lot of people going to that website.
So that's great.
Thank you.