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The Atlanta Journal,
Tuesday, 5th August 1913,
PAGE 1, COLUMN 1.
PAGE 1, COLUMN 3
WHEN LAWYERS CLASH HIS DECISION GOES
JUDGE L. S. ROAN. Staff Photo by Winn.
PAGE 1, COLUMN 6
ON GROUNDS OF IRRELEVANCY ATTORNEY ARNOLD MOVES TO STRIKE PART OF TESTIMONY
He Asks That Conley's Statement That He Acted as "Lookout" for Frank, and Part of Testimony Attacking Frank's Personal Character Be Blotted From Record Attorney Hooper Declares Defense Has Waited Too Long to Enter Objection
MYSTERIOUS "MR. DALTON" MENTIONED BY CONLEY MAY BE CALLED BY SOLICITOR TO CORROBORATE NEGRO
It Is Said That Dalton Is Within Reach of State With Conley Still Under Cross-Examination and Other State Witnesses, Including Dr. Harris, Yet to Be Heard, Indications Are Tuesday That Trial Will Last Three Weeks, if Not Longer
Attorney Arnold entered the court about two minutes late. Mr. Rosser had not arrived. Mr. Arnold asked that the jury be sent out, and stated that he had several motions to make. The jury went out. The first, he said, was a motion to exclude certain testimony from the record on the ground that it was wholly irrelevant, incompetent and inadmissable. Mr. Arnold held a long typewritten document in his hands.
"We move, first," he said, "to exclude from the record all the testimony of Conley relative to watching for the defendant, and we withdraw our cross examination on that subject.
"Second, Mr. Arnold moved that a portion of the negro's testimony attacking Frank's character, which was brought out through questions propounded by the solicitor be ruled out.."
When a recess was ordered in the Frank trial Tuesday at 12 o'clock, Jim Conley, the negro sweeper at the National Pencil factory, had been cross examination for eight hours. Beyond showing to the jury that Conley had been arrested seven times since his employment at the pencil factory, that the negro had lied in the several affidavits given by him to the police, and that by his own admission he had drunk a mixture of wine and beer on the morning of the Saturday that Mary Phagan was murdered, Luther Z. Rosser had made little progress towards breaking down the negro at the hour of adjournment.
Conley was free to admit in answer to the attorneys rapid fire of questions that he had not told the whole truth in the statements and affidavits made by him some weeks ago. The only explanation he gave was that he was not ready to tell it all at the time he made these statements and that he was "holding back some of it." When, however, Mr. Rosser approached the negro's story as related on the stand Monday, he doggedly declared that he had told the truth. Questions hurled at him with a view to trapping him were without effect, for each time the negro was ready with an adroit reply.
It is believed that Conley will be under cross-examination during the rest of the afternoon, and possibly again Wednesday morning. When court adjourned late Monday, Attorney Reuben R. Arnold announced that the negro's examination was not half over, and it seems certain that the defense will exhaust every effort to break down the negro and secure from him admissions that the sensational story told by him on Monday is a fabrication.
The mysterious "Mr. Dalton" mentioned in the testimony by Jim Conley Monday as having made visits to the National Pencil factory in company with women who came there to see Leo M. Frank, the accused factory superintendent, has been located, it is said, and it was rumored in the court room Tuesday that Solicitor Dorsey would put him on the stand to corroborate portions of Conley's testimony.
A tablet of strychnine was given to the negro witness about 11 o'clock to prevent him from falling under the strain of Attorney Rosser's questions. The negro at the time had shown no signs of weakness, but owing to his long confinement without exercise it was feared that the strain might prove too much for him to stand.
NO WOMEN ALLOWED.
At 8:40 o'clock Tuesday morning, when the doors were opened for the public to enter the court room, some 400 people were in the long single column of applicants for admission. Many of them had been there since 6 o'clock. About 250 were admitted, filling the court. Then the doors were shut. No women were allowed to enter.
Leo M. Frank, the accused, arrived at the court house about 8:40 o'clock, accompanied by Sheriff Mangum. James Conley, his negro accuser, arrived a few moments later in custody of a deputy sheriff, having spent the night incommunicado in the county jail. The negro was taken into the court room. Shortly afterward the defendant, Frank, his wife, his mother and his father-in-law, Emil Selig, entered court and gazed constantly at the negro, looking him out of countenance. His eyes evaded theirs. Judge Roan arrived several minutes before court was due to convene. The jury was there.
Attorney Rosser resumed the cross-examination of Conley immediately after court convened.
The attorney questioned the negro minutely with reference to the witness' examination by detectives on May 22.
"When you talked to Black and Scott on Saturday, you told them that you wrote the notes on Friday, didn't you?"
"I don't remember the day, but I did tell them that."
"It was not true, was it?"
"No, sir, it was not true."
CAN'T REMEMBER.
The negro couldn't remember anything more about that particular conversation. Attorney Rosser asked:
"They tried their best on May 27 to get you to make a change, didn't they?"
"No, sir."
"Didn't they tell you it wouldn't do that it wouldn't fit in?"
"No, sir, they just asked me if that was all."
The negro couldn't remember the day of the week when that conversation took place, nor the day of the month.
"Well, on May 28, Scott and Lanford talked to you for four hours, didn't they?"
The negro answered that Detectives Scott and Lanford had talked to him for a good while, but he didn't know how long.
"Didn't they stay with you all day?" asked Mr. Rosser.
"No, sir."
"Well, at any rate, didn't they stick to you closer than brothers?"
The negro made no answer.
"Didn't they call attention to parts of your statement that didn't sound right?"
"Not to me."
"Well, what were they talking about all those hours?"
"They were talking about what I was talking about."
"What did you say to them, Jim?"
Attorney Rosser was referring to a book of typewritten pages while he questioned the negro.
TELLS ROSSER TO EXPLAIN IT.
"You go on and explain it," answered the negro. "I can't remember. You've got the book."
"Mr. Black talked to you a lot, didn't he? And Mr. Lanford?"
"Mr. Black talked to me a good deal and Mr. Lanford a little."
Attorney Rosser continued to ask Conley about the third statement, made May 28.
"In this statement, Jim, you changed
(Continued On Page 4, Col. 1.)
PAGE 4, COLUMN 1
CONLEY HOLDS OUT AGAINST ROSSER'S CROSS FIRE
(Continued from Page One.)
the time that you say you went to the factory, Friday to Saturday, didn't you?"
"I guess so. I don't remember the day, though."
"Why did you do it?"
"I didn't want to put myself in the factory at all on Saturday."
"You didn't want to get mixed up in it. Is that it?"
"Yes, sir, that's it."
WANTED TO KEEP OUT.
"That was the reason you didn't say you could write at first, wasn't it? You didn't want to get mixed up in it?"
"Yes, sir."
Attorney Rosser asked Conley a number of questions about the jail and the police station, drawing a comparison between the two. He asked the negro if he didn't like the police station better than the jail.
The negro replied that he liked both places as long as he had to stay in jail.
Solicitor Dorsey objected to these questions, unless the records of the police station and the jail were introduced in evidence. It was irrelevant anyway, said he.
Attorney Rosser replied to the solicitor.
"You needn't worry. I'm going to introduce those records. I'm going to show how you took him to the jail and then took him away from there right away, too."
Attorney Arnold said to the solicitor: "You needn't be afraid. We're going to put up the evidence."
Solicitor Dorsey replied: "Then I withdraw my objection, upon that assurance."
Attorney Rosser said: "I'll withdraw that statement. I don't want to commit myself."
"SHOOT ANY OLD WAY."
Solicitor Dorsey renewed his objection. After some more conversation, he withdrew it again. "Go ahead; shoot any old way," said the solicitor.
Attorney Rosser continued questioning the negro.
"So you finally, without any fear of anything, after four hours' questioning, went ahead and said you were going to tell the whole truth, did you?"
"Yes, sir. I told them that."
"Well, why did you tell that you didn't get up till 9:30?"
"Well, I was at the factory at 9:30, and I didn't want to tell them that."
"But you said you were telling the whole truth then?"
"I wasn't telling all of it."
"You told the officers you saw the clock on a negro university and it said 9 or 9:30, didn't you?
"Yes, sir, I said I saw the clock, but I didn't tell them what time it was. I said I couldn't see the hands."
"Oh, you said it was cloudy and you couldn't see the clock?"
"Yes, sir."
"Did you see what time it was?"
"No, sir."
CLAIMS TRUTH NOW.
"Well, Jim, what you are telling isn't true, anyhow, is it?"
"Yes, sir."
"You say you couldn't tell the time; what time did you tell the officers you saw it?"
"I told them I thought it was about 9 o'clock."
"But it wasn't 9 o'clock, was it?"
"I told a story about the time."
"You told them you'd forgotten, but it was between 9 and 9:30 didn't you?"
"I disremember."
"What did you tell them you had for breakfast that morning?"
"A piece of liver steak, a piece of bread and a cup of tea."
"Didn't you tell them you had some sausage?"
"I told them there was some sausage on the table, but I didn't tell them I ate any of it."
"Did you ever see a negro fail to eat sausage when there was some on the table in front of him?"
"Yes, sir."
"What did you eat?"
"I ate some steak, some liver, some bread and some tea."
"You told the officers that you sat down in the chair a while after breakfast, didn't you?"
"Yes, sir."
"But that ain't so, is it?"
"No, sir."
TRIES TO TELL TRUTH.
"Jim, when did you really get up? Try to tell the truth, now. Tell us when you got up."
"About 6 o'clock."
"And you told the officers 9 or 9:30?"
"Yes, sir."
"You told the officers that you sat in a chair for about 10 minutes after you ate?"
"Yes, sir."
"Well, what else did you tell them at this time?"
"I disremember. If you'll read it to me, I can tell you."
"I guess you can. You told the officers that you went straight to Peters street, didn't you?"
"Yes, sir."
"Well, why didn't you tell me that?"
"READ IT AND I'LL TELL YOU."
"I forgot. I told you if you'd read it to me I'd tell you."
"You mean if I repeat the story you've learned, you can repeat it back to me."
"No, sir."
"You told them that you went to a beer saloon on Peters street, didn't you?"
"Yes, sir."
"What beer saloon did you tell them you went to?"
"A saloon at the corner of Haynes and Peters streets."
"What else?"
"I told them I drank two beers and I saw a fellow in the saloon with a whip around his neck a man who drives a dray."
"Did you tell 'em this at that time?"
"I don't know about that time, but I did tell 'em that."
"What did you tell 'em was the name of that fellow that had the whip around his neck?"
"I told 'em they called him Bob."
"In your statement on May 18 what saloon did you tell them you visited? A whole lot, eh?"
"I told them three saloons."
"This was the first time you ever talked to them?"
"I do not know if it was the first time."
"What saloon did you tell them you went to the second time you talked to them, when you told them you were going to tell the whole truth?"
"I disremember which ones I told them that time, but I can tell you the saloons."
FORGETS TELLING OF WHISKY.
"In that statement, didn't you tell them you bought some whisky?"
"I don't know if I told them about the whisky that time."
"You told them that you bought the liquor at 11 o'clock? That was a lie, wasn't it?"
"Yes, sir."
"Well, why did you tell them that? Why didn't you tell them it was before 8?"
"I didn't want to put myself in the factory twice."
"Why?"
"Because there was nothing doing there." The negro reaffirmed that this was his only reason for the statement.
"When did you first tell that you got to the factory at 8:30? Before or after they took you from the jail to police station?"
"I think it was afterwards."
"Then you've made most of these elaborate changes since you left the jail?"
"Yes, sir."
SCENES IN COURT WITH JIM CONLEY ON THE WITNESS STAND
ATTORNEY FRANK A. HOOPER SERGEANT L. S. DOBBS INDENTIFIES THE HANDKERCHIEF
MELL STANFORD, A WITNESS PLENNIE MINOR AND HIS ROSE ATTY. ROSSER SITS FACING THE WITNESSES
JIM CONLEY ON THE STAND TOLD STORY TO STARNES.
"Whom did you first tell that you got to the factory at 8:30 instead of 10:30?"
"I think it was Detectives Starnes and Campbell."
"And that was after you got back to headquarters?"
"Yes."
"Whom did you first tell that you didn't leave home at 9 o'clock?"
"I don't remember."
"Well, why did you change the story?"
"Just because I knew that the truth was bound to come."
"Well, that was a long time after you had told that Mr. Frank got you to move the body, wasn't it? And you told them at that time that you were telling the whole truth, didn't you?"
At this point Solicitor Dorsey interrupted the cross examination, objecting to what he termed "the comments" of Mr. Rosser. In the course of his statement to the court, the solicitor said, "I have no objection to your going on here till Saturday night, but I want the examination to be conducted in a lawful manner."
CAN'T DISPUTE WITNESS.
Judge Roan stated that Mr. Rosser could ask the negro if he had not made certain statements, but that he could not argue or dispute with him.
"I'm not disputing with him. I'm treating him in a perfectly ladylike manner," retorted Mr. Rosser. He continued his examination.
"The first time you told about moving the girl's body, didn't you say you were going to tell the whole truth?"
"Yes."
"Still, in that statement you claimed that you got to the factory after 10 o'clock?"
"I don't know why I didn't correct it then, but I did afterwards," said the negro. "I don't think they asked me about it."
"Well, why didn't you correct them about the whisky then?"
"I did tell the truth about it, but I don't remember the time."
"Yes, but in that statement where you said you were telling the whole truth, you said it was at 11 o'clock?"
"No, sir, I never did say it was at 11."
"How much beer did you tell them that you drank that morning?"
"Four beers."
"Didn't you tell them it was six beers and some of them double-headers?"
"I don't remember telling them that."
"The first saloon you got into, you told them you bought two beers, didn't you?"
"Yes, sir."
"Well, you told them you bought six beers altogether, didn't you?"
"No, sir, I said four or five beers."
"Didn't you tell them you had a couple of double-headers?"
"No, sir, I didn't say anything about double-headers."
"Well, did you tell 'em you bought the wine, that time?"
PUT WINE IN HIS BEER.
"No, sir, I didn't tell them nothing about buying wine. I said I had some put in my beer."
"You didn't tell them that at that time, did you?"
"I'm not certain. I don't know about that."
"Well, then, isn't it a fact that you never told them you'd bought wine, until after you'd been brought back from the jail?"
"I don't know, sir."
"Well, when was it you bought this wine?"
"On Saturday morning."
"And you never told anybody about that until you were taken from the jail to the lockup?"
"I don't know. I told Mr. Black and Mr. Scott, though, some time."
"Well, when was it, Jim?"
"I don't know, sir, but I told them."
"Your memory isn't very good, is it Jim?"
"It's better this morning."
"Oh, it's improved over night, has it?"
FRANK LAUGHS.
At this juncture Leo M. Frank and Mrs. Frank both laughed, and the negro grinned.
"So the jail helped you out last night, did it, Jim?" Mr. Rosser continued.
"I don't know about that. It's better though, this morning."
"Oh, it's not any better this morning, is it?"
"Yes, sir."
"It was pretty bad last night, wasn't it?"
"No, sir, not so very bad."
Attorney Rosser asked Conley this question: "Now when you made this statement, you said you went straight from Peters street to the Capital City laundry, didn't you?"
"I don't know, sir."
"Ain't your memory good enough for that, Jim? Ain't it, Jim? Tell me."
"I remember going to the laundry. I don't know what I told them about it, though."
"Well, didn't you tell the detectives that you went from Peters street to the Capital City laundry and met Frank on the way?"
"I don't remember saying so."
"Didn't you tell it, now?" repeated Mr. Rosser.
"I don't know."
"Well, if I ask you if you remember a thing, and you say you do, and then I turn around and put it in different words and ask you again, you can't remember it, can you?"
"I don't know, sir."
"You told the officers the first time that you went from Peters street direct to Nelson and Forsyth streets, didn't you?"
"Yes, sir."
ADMITS FALSE STATEMENT.
"That was a story, wasn't it?"
"Yes, sir."
"But now you say you went from the factory to Nelson and Forsyth streets, don't you?"
"Yes, sir."
"Why didn't you tell them in your first statement that the first time you met Frank was after you left the factory?"
"I did tell them that."
"But not in your first story?"
"I don't remember which story it was."
"What officers did you tell that to?"
"I disremember. It was Mr. Starnes or Mr. Campbell or Mr. Scott or Mr. Black."
"Was that before or after you were brought back from the jail, that you told them that?"
"Before."
"How long before?"
"I don't know."
"In your first statement, didn't you tell that when you met Frank at Nelson and Forsyth streets, he asked you where you were going?"
"I disremember."
"Then your memory's not any better today than it was yesterday evening? It doesn't improve?"
"Yes, sir."
WHAT FRANK SAID.
"Well, improve it again and tell me what Frank said to you."
"He said, 'Ha, ha' "
"That's what you say now. Tell us what you told the officers. Didn't you tell them that Frank asked you where you were going, and you told him you were going to the Capital City laundry to see your mother?"
"He said, 'Ha, ha' "
"I'm asking you what you told the officers before you told them he said, 'ha, ha.'"
"I disremember."
"You don't remember telling the officers that he asked you where you were going, and that you answered you were going to the Capital City laundry to see your mother?"
"No, sir."
WASN'T TRUE.
"Well if you did tell the officers that, it wasn't true, was it?"
"No, sir, it wasn't so."
"In your statement to the officers, how long did you say Mr. Frank stayed at Montag Brothers?"
"I don't know."
"Didn't you say 'twenty minutes'?"
"I said 'about twenty minutes.'"
"Yesterday you said you didn't have no idea how long he was gone."
"Yes, sir, I wasn't asked then what I told the detectives."
"Well, why did you tell the detectives twenty minutes if you didn't know how long he was gone?"
"They told me to fix a time, and I told them the best I could."
"Did Mr. Frank stay an hour at Montag's?"
"I don't know how long."
"Well, you told the officers about twenty minutes?"
"That's what I told Mr. Scott."
"And you had no idea then, and you haven't got any idea now, how long he stayed at Montag's?"
"No, sir."
"Didn't you say yesterday that Frank didn't say anything to you from the time he left Nelson and Forsyth streets until the time he got to the factory?"
DIDN'T CATCH REMARK.
"No, sir, I said when he was in front of that store and liked to have run into the little baby, that he turned around and said something but I didn't know what he said."
"You didn't tell the police that?"
"Yes, sir."
"Whom did you tell?"
"I don't know which one."
"Was that before or after you got out of jail?"
"After."
"You got out of jail on June 11, didn't you?"
"I don't know sir."
"Then you didn't tell that until after June 11?"
"I don't know. I told it after I got out of jail."
"Why didn't you tell about the baby transaction, when you were telling the story about moving the body"
"I did tell about it, but I don't know in what statement."
"Did you tell Mr. Dorsey that?"
"Yes, sir."
"After you got out of jail?"
"Yes, sir."
"How long after?"
"I don't know."
"Why didn't you tell the officers Frank wanted you to watch for him after you went back to the factory that Saturday?"
"I did."
"Well, why didn't you tell them that at the same time you were telling about moving the body?"
"I did tell them, but I don't know when."
"Well, tell me when and to whom you told that."
"I disremember."
"Why didn't you tell about his stomping his feet when you first told about moving the body?"
"I don't know when I first told about him stomping his feet."
"Whom did you tell about it?"
"Mr. Scott, Mr. Black, Mr. Campbell and Mr. Starnes."
In his examination, Attorney Rosser then left the statements which the negro had made to the police and began questioning him about what he actually saw and did on the morning of the tragedy.
QUESTION ABOUT TRAGEDY.
By a tedious examination, he brought out statements to the effect that the negro saw Darley and Miss Mattie Smith at the factory before he went to Montag's, and that he also saw Darley after he had returned. The negro said that on going to the factory that morning he remained about half an hour after his conversation with Frank. However, he replied, "yes" to this question: "You saw Darley and Miss Smith about 9:30 o'clock before you left, didn't you?" Mr. Rosser asked him if he was certain of this, and the negro replied yes.
Attorney Rosser also brought out the statement that he saw Mr. Holloway talking to a peg-legged negro after he came back from Montag's and a short time before Darley finally left the factory. After talking to the peg-legged negro, said Conley, Mr. Holloway went upstairs, and came down again in about fifteen minutes later with a different coat on, and his hat, and left. The negro said that anyone coming down the steps could have seen him at the point where he was sitting on the box.
The negro stated, under continued questions, that for a long time he was mistaken and thought he saw Darley and Miss Smith after he went back to the factory from Montag's.
"Who corrected that?" demanded Mr. Rosser.
"I did myself I just remembered it." said the negro.
"Whom did you tell Mr. Dorsey?"
"Yes, and Mr. Starnes and Campbell, too." The negro added that he made the correction after he had been taken back from the tower to the jail.
"IF IT'S THERE I SAID IT."
"About the lady in green, Jim, didn't you tell the detectives that after Mr. Holloway went up she came down?"
"No, sir, I don't think I told 'em that."
"Didn't you tell them that, Jim?"
"Well, if it's down there, I must have told them that, but I made a mistake if I did."
"Well, who do you say now went up first."
"She did."
"When did you say yesterday that Mr. Quinn went up?"
"I said he was the last man that went up."
"Well, didn't you tell the officers that you saw Mr. Holloway going up, and that then came a lady in a green dress?"
"I don't know. If I did, I made a mistake."
"How many mistakes did you make in this matter?"
"I don't know."
"How long did you tell the officers she stayed up there?"
"I don't remember."
"How long did she stay up there?"
"A good while."
"What do you call a good while, now, Jim?"
"Ten or fifteen minutes."
"Didn't you tell the officers she stayed up there six or seven minutes?"
"I don't know."
"Is that another mistake?"
"Well, if it's down there I must have said it."
"After that lady came down, how long was it before the next person came in?"
"I don't know."
"Why didn't you tell the officers about the other people that went up there that time?"
"Well, I didn't want to give them too many names then."
WANTED TO STEER CLEAR.
"You didn't want to be connected with it, huh?"
"I guess that's it," replied the negro.
"Well, four were enough to connect with it, weren't they?"
Before Conley could answer, Solicitor Dorsey objected to the question on the ground that it was a manner of argument. Judge Roan, after listening to Solicitor Dorsey's argument of about a minute, ruled: "Well, if it's a question of argument, I'll rule it out." "May I ask your honor to have the stenographer read the question?" said Solicitor Dorsey. The stenographer read it. Judge Roan held that it was a matter of argument, and Attorney Rosser said: "Well, then, I'll put it another way."
"You did know that four others went up and down and that all had an opportunity to see you?"
"Yes, sir, if they looked over there."
"You didn't tell about the others, for fear they would report on you?"
"I never had thought about it."
"Why didn't you tell the policemen about them?"
"I didn't think about it."
"Was it before or after you were in jail that you corrected this statement?"
"I don't know, sir."
"So that was just an honest mistake of yours, about people going up and down?"
"No, sir."
"Well, who did you correct it to?"
"To Detectives Starnes and Campbell."
"Where?"
"At police headquarters."
"Was Solicitor Dorsey there?"
"I don't know, sir, whether he was or not."
"You are not sure, are you, whether you corrected this statement at police headquarters or at Dorsey's office?"
"I think it was at headquarters."
"How many times have you been to Mr. Dorsey's office?"
"Three times."
"How many times has Mr. Dorsey been to headquarters to see you?"
"About four times."
WANTED TO HOLD BACK.
"Then it took Mr. Dorsey seven times to get your statement straight?"
"I just told a little more each time."
"Then you'd add a little and take a little away?"
"I didn't want to tell it all."
"Why?"
"I wanted to hold back some."
"Well, when you told about helping Frank to move the body, you told it all, didn't you?"
"I don't know."
"You couldn't help Frank then by holding back anything, could you?"
"I don't know, sir."
"Well, why didn't you tell it all, then?"
"I wanted to hold back some."
"You had to correct a lot of stories?"
"Yes, sir, I had to make some corrections."
"You've been kept busy correcting your stories and adding to them?"
"No, sir."
"Well, it took Mr. Dorsey seven times to get it straight, didn't it?"
"I don't know. I didn't tell it all at any one time."
"You told the officers that as soon as Frank whistled you went up and found him at the head of the stairs?"
NEGRO TAKES STRYCHNINE.
The jury asked to be excused at this juncture. While the jury was out, Conley took a tablet that a court attache gave to him. It was explained that it was a strychnine tablet. "The negro is weak," said the attache, privately. "He's been locked up in a cell and hasn't had any exercise, and this physical strain is telling on him."
When the jury returned, Mr. Rosser resumed his questioning, the concluding question being forgotten for the moment. Mr. Rosser continued questioning the negro about his statements to the police.
When he brought from the negro the admission that a certain minor statement by himself was a lie, Solicitor Dorsey interrupted again with his previous objection against what he termed Mr. Rosser's effort to impeach the witness without resorting to the methods prescribed by the code for that procedure.
Mr. Rosser's question was read to Judge Roan, who held that the attorney had not followed the rule in that he had not called the negro's attention to the time, the place, and the people to whom he made the statement.
ROSSER CHANGES QUESTION.
"At the police station, on May 28, in the county of Fulton, state of Georgia, city of Atlanta, in the presence of Detectives Black and Scott," asked Mr. Rosser of the witness, "didn't you say that you went to a moving picture show that afternoon?"
"I didn't say that I went inside of a moving picture show," said the negro. "I told them that I went by a moving picture show and looked at the pictures on the outside."
"And that is the truth, is it?" asked Mr. Rosser.
"Yes, sir."
"Did you go back to Peters street before you went home?"
"Yes."
"How long did you stay?"
"About five minutes."
"How much beer did you drink?"
"About two glasses."
"Were they double-headers?"
"I don't remember."
"On May 29, to Black and Scott, you added some more things and said that that made the whole truth."
"I don't remember. I know that I kept adding things, several times, that I'd been holding back."
"After each of these additions you were visited by Mr. Dorsey, weren't you?"
"Not all of them."
"Then you visited Mr. Dorsey I don't mean socially, but for these corrections."
"Yes, sir."
"He sure did," said Mr. Dorsey, in an aside.
Attorney Rosser again abandoned the negro's statements to the police.
"On Friday Frank talked to you and Miss Willis saw him, you said yesterday, didn't you?"
"No, I didn't say that. I said Miss Willis could have seen us."
"Well, the next morning, you just happened to meet Mr. Frank at the front door, did you?"
"We got there at the same time, but he went in ahead of me."
"Did you lock the door any time that day?"
"Yes, sir, I locked it."
"What time was it?"
"I don't know."
HEARD GIRL SCREAM.
"And you heard the screaming and then the stamping? Did you lock the door then?"
"Yes, sir."
"But it was unlocked while you were upstairs, wasn't it?"
"No, I unlocked it when I heard the whistle, before I went upstairs."
"You said yesterday that Frank showed you that day how to unlock the door, didn't you?"
"Yes, sir."
"Well, hadn't he showed you before?"
"Yes, on Thanksgiving day."
"Well, why did he do it again?"
"I don't know."
"Anybody could have come in there while you were upstairs, couldn't they?"
"I don't know anything about that. I didn't see anybody."
"You say now that Frank went into the pencil factory a litle before you?"
"Yes, sir."
"Well, yesterday, didn't you say you went in together?"
"I don't know."
RIGHT BEHIND FRANK.
"Well now, let's see." The attorney went through a transcript of the statement that Conley made Monday. Then he read Conley's answer in which Conley said Monday that Frank and he entered the factory together. "Did you make a mistake, Jim?" asked Mr. Rosser.
"Well, I was right behind him."
"Did Frank say anything about the Capital City Laundry, at the factory, when you told him you wanted to go down there and see your mother?"
"Yes, sir."
"What were his exact words?"
"Well, I don't remember his exact words, but he said something about it."
"Well, now, tell me one thing Mr. Frank said when you told him you wanted to go to the Capital City Laundry."
"One thing he said was: 'Don't let Mr. Darley see you.'"
"Oh, Jim, I don't mean that. I mean in answer to your telling him you wanted to go. What did you answer when I asked you that yesterday?"
Mr. Hooper objected to the question. He addressed the court. "Your honor, Mr. Rosser is examining this witness upon the record of yesterday. I submit that if he intends to pursue this line of questioning, he should put this in as evidence or let the witness read it or have it read to him. This is the same as any other written testimony.
SAME LIE TWICE?
"The witness has the right to refresh his memory on it the same as on any
(Continued on Page Five. Col. 1.)
PAGE 5, COLUMN 1
WITNESS HAS UNDERGONE EIGHT HOURS' GRILLING
(Continued From Page 4.)
other written testimony. The opposing counsel can't be allowed to discredit this witness in this manner. In the eyes of the law, the transcript of yesterday's testimony is now written evidence. It's written evidence as soon as it comes from the witness' mouth. It's a superhuman task for the witness to remember the sequence of the questions he was asked yesterday. I object to Mr. Rosser asking the witness questions in this manner."
Attorney Rosser arose. "It's not superhuman for the witness to tell the truth twice!" he expostulated. "Or a lie twice. I'm going to see if he can tell the same lie twice."
Mr. Hooper reiterated his argument, declaring it was unfair to the witness for the defense to proceed in this way. If Attorney Rosser was going to pursue this line of questioning, he would insist on the testimony being read to the witness to refresh his memory.
Mr. Rosser arose again and said that he didn't intend to ask the witness the sequence of the questions, and that he wasn't using the transcript of yesterday's testimony to impeach the witness. "I've got 'em," he said, "simply to aid my memory. I want to see if he can repeat the answers to the questions I asked him yesterday."
Attorney Hooper said, "If he wants to do that, let the stenographer read the questions. He's sworn to read them correctly."
ROAN RULES WITH ROSSER.
After some other argument, Judge Roan ruled with the defense, with the understanding that the questions would not be argumentative or aimed to impeach the witness directly on his own testimony.
"Jim, did Mr. Frank tell you why he wanted you to meet him at Nelson and Forsyth streets?"
"No, sir."
"You could have come back to the factory from the laundry just as easily, couldn't you?"
"Yes, sir, if he hadn't told me to meet him."
"Jim, you told the officers first that you met Frank there by accident, didn't you?"
"I disremember."
"You got to Nelson and Forsyth streets about 10:30?"
"Between 10 and 10:30."
WHAT FRANK SAID.
"When you saw Frank going to Montag's, it was after 10 o'clock and before 10:30. You don't know, how long he stayed. I believe you said, but you thought it was about an hour?"
"Yes, sir."
"Then it must have been 11:30 when he came on back?"
"I don't know what time it was."
"When Frank saw you standing there at Nelson and Forsyth streets, what did he say?"
"He says, 'Ha, ha! Ha, ha! You's here, is you?'"
"What else did he say?"
"'Wait here a minute until I go to Montag's.' I was standing on Nelson street across Forsyth on the corner nearest toward Mitchell street."
"And you think you stood there waiting for Frank for about an hour?"
"I don't know."
"Well, what is the best of your recollection?"
"It might have been about a half an hour."
"You said just now it was about an hour?"
"I said I didn't know exactly."
DON'T KNOW.
"You don't know why he wanted you to meet him there?"
"No, sir."
"And that was all the conversation he had with you?"
"Yes, sir."
"When was it he told you that a young lady was coming to chat with him?"
"The last time was at the factory."
"He told you that, then, before you left the factory and after you got back to the factory?"
"Yes, sir. After we got back to the factory and just before he showed me about locking the door."
"What else did he tell you about the door?"
"He showed me how to turn the lock and told me nobody who didn't have a key could get in."
"Why didn't you tell us about the key yesterday?"
"I did."
"Now Jim, didn't he say he told you to just turn the knob and nobody could get in?"
"I told about the key."
"You say he told you he was going to stamp on the floor, and when you heard him stamp to lock the door, and when you heard him whistle to unlock the door and come upstairs?"
EXPECTING A CALLER.
"Yes, sir, he told me that after he told me to sit down on the box."
"He had told you about these signals before, hadn't he?"
"Yes, sir, on Thanksgiving."
"Why did he repeat it?"
"I don't know, sir."
"Then what?"
"When I sat down on the box Mr. Frank told me there was going to be a young lady up here directly and he was going to have a little chat with her."
"What's the name of the lady in the green dress, who came in?"
"I don't know."
"What time did she come in?"
"I don't know."
"Well, hadn't you been back from Montag's only five minutes?"
"I couldn't tell it hadn't been long."
"How long did she stay?"
"About fifteen minutes."
"Did the peg-legged negro come then?"
"Yes."
"Didn't you say in your second tale to Black and Scott that the peg-legged negro came first?"
"I don't believe I did."
"How long had she been gone before the negro came?"
"Two or three minutes."
"Mr. Holloway went out to the wagon and talked with the man, didn't he?"
"Yes, sir."
"Didn't you say yesterday that he read a bill?"
"Not out at the wagon. He read that coming down the steps."
"How long was it before Darley came down?"
"Five or ten minutes."
"Then Holloway went out and the green dress lady went out, and then Quinn came, didn't he?"
"Yes."
COULDN'T MIX HIM.
"Did he go up and come back before Monteen Stover and Miss Mary Phagan went up?"
"He came up after Miss Stover had gone out. They were all three there almost together."
CITY DETECTIVES READING CONLEY'S STORY
Detective John Black (left) and Chief N. A. Lanford. Staff Photo by Winn.
"Now, let's see," said Mr. Rosser. "First Quinn came and left, and then Miss Monteen Stover came, and then the lady that's dead?"
"No, sir," said the negro. "The lady that's dead came first, and then Miss Monteen went up and came back down."
"Are those all the people you saw?"
"I think so.
"Didn't you see Mrs. Mae Barrett?"
"No, sir."
"Didn't you see Miss Corinthia Hall, and Miss Hall, the stenographer, and the office boy, and Miss Emma Clark?"
"No, sir."
"Didn't you see Mrs. White?"
"No, sir."
"Well, then," said Mr. Rosser, "the people you saw there were Holloway, the peg-legged negro, Mr. Darley, the green dress, Quinn, Miss Mary Phagan and Miss Stover?"
"Yes, sir," answered the negro.
"Well, did you stay right there on that box all the time?"
"No, sir, I left it twice for a minute or two."
"Are you certain you went to sleep after Miss Stover left?"
"Yes, sir."
"You locked the front door after you woke up?"
"Yes, sir."
"Didn't you get up to let somebody in?"
"No, sir, there wasn't nobody came."
"Mr. Frank didn't give you notice to lock the door until after Miss Stover had gone up, did he?"
"Not till after she came down."
SCREAM BEFORE SIGNAL.
"You heard the scream before you heard the stamping, didn't you?"
"Yes, sir."
"You heard the footsteps going back toward the metal room. Was that before or after you heard this scream?"
"That was before."
"And the scream was before Miss Monteen Stover came down?"
"It was before she ever went up."
"In your four statements to the police, you didn't say anything about seeing Mary Phagan, did you, that day?"
"I told the detectives."
"Well, who did you tell?"
"Mr. Starnes and Mr. Campbell."
"When did you tell about that scream?"
"I don't know the date. I told Mr. Starnes and Mr. Campbell."
"Did you tell these two things at the same time?"
"Not at the same time. I told them right after one another."
"Well, it was the same meeting?"
"Yes, sir."
"And after you heard the scream, you went to sleep, did you?"
"Not right then. I heard something else before I went to sleep."
"Well, what?"
"Miss Stover came in and went out."
"Now, did you tell the police the rest of this before or after you went to the jail?"
"It was afterwards."
"How long afterwards?"
"Quite a while."
"Well, after Monteen Stover went out you went to sleep?"
"Yes, sir."
"And the stamp woke you up, did it?"
"Yes, sir."
"How many times did you hear him stamp?"
"I heard Mr. Frank stamp three times."
"And then you went upstairs?"
"No, sir, I went and locked the door, and then kicked twice on the elevator door, and went and sat down again."
"When did you first tell about kicking on the elevator door?"
"I told it to the detectives."
"What sort of shoes did Mary Phagan have on?"
"I noticed them after she was dead."
"Didn't you notice them before then?"
"No, sir."
"The only women you saw go up the stairs were the woman in green, Miss Mattie Smith and Miss Stover?"
"That's all, after we come back from Mr. Montag's."
"How long did Monteen Stover stay upstairs?"
"Just a little while."
"You said yesterday she stayed up there a good while, didn't you?"
"I don't remember saying that. I think I said she stayed up there about five minutes."
"How long did the lady in green stay up there?"
"It seemed to me about ten or fifteen minutes."
"How do you know?"
"I don't know. I'm only guessing."
JUST MAKING GUESSES.
"Oh, you're only guessing at all of this, then?"
"Yes, sir, I'm only guessing."
"How long after you heard him stamp before he whistled?"
"I couldn't say."
"With your best efforts, what do you think?"
"Ten or fifteen minutes."
"You heard nothing else for ten or fifteen minutes?"
"No, sir."
"What did you do when you heard him stamp?"
"I unlocked the door."
"And he whistled ten or fifteen minutes later?"
"Yes, sir."
"How long now do you say it was between the time he stamped and the time he whistled?"
"It didn't seem long."
"When you got up to the top of the steps, what did you see?"
"I saw Mr. Frank, and he was trembling, nervous going on, and shaking himself."
"When did you first tell that?"
"I don't know."
"When you told the detectives about moving the body, and when you were telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth?"
"I don't know when."
"Whom did you tell?"
"Mr. Dorsey, Mr. Starnes and Mr. Campbell, I think Mr. Black and Mr. Scott."
"When did you tell Black and Scott?"
"I don't know."
ANSWERS EVASIVE.
"Did you tell Black and Scott about him looking wild in his eyes and about his face being red, when you were telling them the truth and nothing but the truth?"
"I don't know whether I did or not. I intended to tell it all then."
"You didn't mean to tell any stories on that day?"
"No, sir."
"That day when you told Black and Scott about moving the body, you meant to tell the whole truth everything you remembered?"
"I don't know whether I did or not. I told the best I could remember."
"If you told anything else afterwards, it was because you just remembered it?"
"I guess you're right."
"You say Frank had a cord in his hand when you came upstairs?"
"Yes, sir, he had a cord, and he was trembling and shaking."
"I didn't ask you anything about him trembling and shaking. I asked you if he had a cord."
"Yes, sir, he had a cord."
"When did you tell that?"
"I don't know."
"The same day you were doing your best to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth?"
STICKS TO STORY.
"I don't know. I couldn't think of everything that day."
"What did Frank do with the cord?"
"He threw it over near the saw on the left hand side of the building looking toward the office."
"He threw it over while he was standing there?"
"Yes, sir, when he was talking to me and telling me to hurry."
"What else did Frank say to you?"
"When I came up he asked me if I saw that little girl come up here a while ago. I told him 'yes, sir, I saw two little girls go up, but I only saw one of them go out."
"You didn't tell that when you told about moving the body."
"I think I did."
"Did he say anything else standing there?"
STORY OF TRAGEDY.
"Yes, sir. He asked me if I saw that little girl come up here a while ago, and I told him, yes, sir, I saw two of them come up, and I saw only one go out. He said, 'Uh-huh. That little girl that didn't go out came up to the office. She went back to the metal department to see about some work. I went back there with her. I wanted to be with her, and she refused me. I ain't built like other me, you know. I struck her and struck her too hard. Now you go back there and get her and bring her out. There's some money in it for you.'"
"What did he say he struck her with?"
"He didn't say."
"You didn't tell that to Black and Scott, did you? Didn't you tell them that Frank said he picked up a little girl and let her fall? And you didn't say he told you anything about hitting her?"
"Yes, sir, I think that's right."
"Well, why didn't you tell them, then?"
"I thought I did."
"Well, if you didn't, why didn't you?"
"It just come to my remembrance."
"Jim, you've got a good mind, haven't you?"
"Yes, sir."
"Well, which did you tell the officers that time you were telling them the whole truth and nothing but the truth?"
"I told Mr. Black and Mr. Scott one time."
RELATES SAME DETAIL.
"On May 29, didn't you say to the detectives that Frank told you he'd picked up a little girl and let her fall? You claimed to be telling the whole truth, then. Why didn't you say he told you he struck her?"
"I remember now that then I told them that he struck her."
"You said yesterday that at the head of the stairs he told you he was not built like other men. Why didn't you tell Black and Scott that?"
"I'm certain I told Mr. Scott," said the negro.
"You say he told you back there what to do get her and bring her to him. Didn't you know then that she was dead?"
"No, sir, I didn't."
"Why did you tell the detectives that he told you to bring her to the elevator?"
"I didn't tell them that then. It was after she fell he spoke of the elevator. At first he just said, 'Bring her up here.'"
"You went back there and found her near the toilet "
DORSEY AND ROSSER TILT.
Solicitor Dorsey jumped to his feet, objecting to the assertion made by the attorney. Mr. Rosser turned toward the solicitor and bellowed, "I said didn't you?" Mr. Dorsey sat down.
"You say that you found the cord around her neck and a piece of her underclothes, don't you?"
"I don't know about it being her underclothes. I found a piece of white cloth around her neck, and the knot was tied behind her head and held her head up off the floor."
"When you were telling Black and Scott the whole truth, did you tell them about the cord?"
"I don't know. I told them all I could remember," said the negro.
"Didn't you say to Black and Scott that when you got to where the girl was you hollered back to Frank, 'This girl is dead?' Why didn't you tell them that you went out to the door to say that?"
"I don't know. I don't remember what I told."
"When did you look at the clock?"
"It was four minutes to 1."
DIFFERENT CLOTH.
"You didn't say a word about that cloth that you wrapped Mary Phagan's body up in, when you were telling your story to Black and Scott, did you?"
"Yes, sir, I told them."
"Jim, when you were talking to Frank up front, could you see the face of the clock?"
"Yes, sir."
"And you knew it was four minutes to 1?"
"Yes, sir."
"After that you got some burlap, didn't you?"
"Yes, sir."
"It wasn't the piece we had here the other day, was it?"
"No, sir. It was a piece of different cloth, something like your shirt."
"How big a piece?"
"Well, it was longer than me."
"How wide was it about two feet?"
"I don't know sir."
"EXACTLY" TWO FEET.
"Well, what do you call two feet?"
"This is what I call two feet," said the negro, innocently putting the toe of his right foot against the heel of his left and holding them up. The court laughed.
"How many inches are there in a foot, Jim?"
"I don't know, sir."
Conley held his hands up about two and a half feet apart, and said the cloth was that wide.
"Well, what did you do with the cloth?"
"I went back to the metal room and laid it down on the floor. Then I picked up the girl's head and laid it on it. Then I rolled her over on it."
"When you were telling your story to Black and Starnes, you didn't tell them about coming down toward Frank's office, did you?"
COURT RECESSES.
"I told them some time, I don't remember when."
"Who was present?"
"I disremember."
Court recessed at this point, at 12:35 o'clock, until 2 o'clock.
AFTERNOON SESSION.
That the grilling of Conley was not to last many more hours, at his hands at least, was indicated by Attorney Rosser just before the resumption of court Tuesday afternoon, in a remark to a newspaper man: "I'm about through with him."
A number of spectators sat through the noon recess in the court room, preferring that to risking their seats by going out to lunch.
Frank, the accused, and his wife, sat in an ante-room of the court and lunched together. A few moments before court was due to convene, they sent out for soft drinks.
Judge Roan stated before the trial began that he would permit the members of the jury to remove their coats at the afternoon session on account of the heat.
PAGE 1, COLUMN 4
LAWYERS ON BOTH SIDES SATISFIED WITH CONLEY
"They Haven't Shaken Him a Particle," Says Dorsey "He Has Told About 240 Lies Already," Declares Attorney Reuben R. Arnold
Both the state's attorneys and the counsel for Leo M. Frank Tuesday at noon expressed satisfaction with the progress of the cross-examination of James Conley, the negro sweeper. The negro had been on the stand then for more than nine hours, during eight hours of which he had undergone a strenuous grilling at the hands of Attorney L. Z. Rosser.
"They have not shaken him a particle," declared Solicitor Dorsey, "and that isn't all, I don't believe they will be able to do so." Attorney Frank A. Hooper, who is assisting Mr. Dorsey in the prosecution of Frank, said: "Mr. Rosser will go ahead and wear himself out, and Attorney Arnold will hurl questions at Conley until he, too, grows weary, and when it is all over the negro will still be there ready for more."
Mr. Rosser was confident that he had made great headway in discredited Conley's testimony. He smilingly commented upon how he had tangled up the negro when he got him away from his recited story, but said that when Conley got back into his well-drilled tale he ran along like a piece of well-oiled machinery. "I've caught him in a mass of lies," asserted Mr. Rosser.
"Conley has lied both specifically and generally," declared Reuben Arnold. "He has lied about material things and he has lied about immaterial things. He has told about 240 lies since he has been under cross-examination. I kept tab on him until he had told over 200 lies, and then they came so fast I couldn't keep up with him."
PAGE 6, COLUMN 2
An Incomparable Wealth Producer.
If a State were given its choice between a hundred gold mines and an up-to-date agricultural college, it would undoubtedly be the part of practical wisdom to take the college; for, the wealth-producing power of such an institution is unlimited both in variety and extent. It is a continually creative force, drawing riches from the sun and soil, scattering new treasure along every path of business and placing directly within the people's reach the ideas and opportunities for steady good fortune.
We hear much today of the great food harvests of Kansas. The promised wheat crop of that State is pointed out as one of the brightest omens of a prosperous autumn. This abundant yield of wheat is traceable directly to the patient work and the growing influence of Kansas' system of agricultural education. It required years of "teaching and talk," as one observer remarks, to drive home the value and importance of scientific methods on the farm, "but at last, when actual crop yields showed beyond a doubt the value of science, its principles and practices have been adopted."
Western Kansas presents a particularly striking example of what agricultural education can accomplish. The lands in that section of the State were notoriously poor, but deep plowing, combined with intensive methods and in some instances with irrigation, have transformed them to teeming acres. "The western counties," we are told by a writer who has recently studied conditions there, "have increased their wheat acreage until now they rival the eastern part of the State. There are six million acres of wheat sown in Kansas, with an average of twelve bushels to the acre. But the farmers are not satisfied with that small average, and they have been applying the methods of the college to their work, with the result that next year will see the acre figures greatly increased. Scientific methods are the chief secret of the phenomenal yields now seen in the western counties yields which will average from twenty-five to thirty bushels, and in some cases will reach forty to fifty bushels to the acre."
The Kansas college of agriculture has accomplished much in the teeth of circumstances which are naturally adverse. This it has been enabled to do largely through liberal financial support. What may not Georgia's State College of Agriculture accomplish in a region of natural fertility, if it is supported as it deserves to be? Our own college of agriculture has already achieved, and is still achieving, a vast deal for the development of farms and for the increased production of food supplies. Its quickening, constructive influence is felt the State around. It should be financed as generously as practical conditions will permit, for it is one of the great primal sources of the State's progress and prosperity.
Borrowers are scarce when you have nothing but trouble to lend.
Jurors in the Frank trial are escaping the collectors, and they're also free from the man who demands your opinion of the evidence.
"Wriskey drinking on the increase," but then there are no available statistics on the recent increase of grape juice consumption.
During the courtship stunt a man's word goes about seventeen times as far with the woman in the case as it does after the two face the minister.
On the day of nis wedding a man imagines that his wife drew a prize; but as a matter of fact he is seldom anything more than a consolation prize.
PAGE 7, COLUMN 5
Jim Conley's Memory Proved Bad Under Cross-Examination Attorney Luther Z. Rosser's Gentle Manner Failed to Entrap the Negro, Who in a Close Place Always Fell Back on "I Disremember"
Luther Rosser Monday afternoon pleaded with Jim Conley.
"Jim, can't you remember?" urged Mr. Rosser plaintively. "Just think again, Jim."
"Well, mebbe if you reads it out, Mr. Rosser. My memory's bad."
Mr. Rosser had another look at the written statement from which he was questioning Jim. Mr. Rosser rubbed his hand over the top of his head. Mr. Rosser sighed in a gusty fashion.
"Jim, you know we're great friends, and we're going to get along fine together. But, Jim, can't you remember anything you said?"
"Well, Mr. Rosser, mebbe I can if you reads 'em out."
Judge Broyles has seen witnesses exactly like Jim negroes who seem to fit in with the police court atmosphere.
Their memory is ready when memory is convenient, but memory halts when discretion says that uncertainty would be the better course. That's how it was with Jim.
MR. ROSSER PLEADS.
For the time being Mr. Rosser rubbed his head and pleaded. He has taken other witnesses as though they were atoms of humanity and rolled them, as it were, between the finger and thumb of his wit.
But he talked plaintively to Jim Conley.
"Won't you please remember, Jim?"
"Well, if you jes reads 'em to me, Mr. Rosser "
Reading was just what Mr. Rosser refused to do. His purpose was to test Jim's memory perhaps, to confound Jim by a comparison of his oral statements upon the stand with his written statements.
But Jim's memory halted and stumbled and failed completely like a worn out animal. It refused to bring his thoughts to those written statements to which Mr. Rosser returned the testimony again and again. If they were read, then Jim could say whether or not they were of his utterance. Otherwise
"My memory's pretty poor, Mr. Rosser. I remembers some things, and some things I disremembers."
Mr. Rosser rubbed his hand over his head.
"All right, Jim," he said gently. "All right. We'll do the best we can."
There was that in Mr. Rosser's voice which almost roused the sympathy of the court room. His cross-examinations had heretofore been so robust and vigorous. But during Monday afternoon Jim's memory tempered the attorney's tone to a gentle inquiry and gave it a slightly plaintive inflexion.
"You didn't hesitate a minute when you were telling about the murder, Jim," pointed out Mr. Rosser, not accusingly, but just for Jim's information. "And now you disremember everything."
The court room had noticed that. Jim's accusation Monday morning that Frank murdered Mary Phagan came from his lips so nimbly, so glibly, that his words tumbled out, one upon another. Jim was cautioned to speak slower. So sure was he of all he had to tell that his utterance was too quick for the jury to understand. No more direct, quick, detailed testimony was ever given than that of Jim on Monday morning.
JIM FORGETS.
But queer enough, Jim forgot everything by afternoon everything except what he had told the jury in the morning.
Then he had remembered minute details. But he found, when he began to search his memory in the afternoon, that he had forgotten much which was incidental to the murder and had no part in his morning's story.
This misfortune of his put the plaintive note into Mr. Rosser's voice. Mr. Rosser's tone went from fierce to facile. Other witnesses had found questions hurled at their heads by him. Jim discovered that, during Monday afternoon at least, Mr. Rosser nature contained a vein of meekness. Jim found the milk of human kindness in the makeup of the defense's attorney. Jim showed the court that roses of soft speech sometimes mingle even with the sharpest thorns of cross-examination.
Mr. Rosser wheedled, he cajoled, he pleaded with Jim. But he met with no success. The memory which failed at every turn was a defense for the negro through which the attorney could not break. Little if any success was had Monday afternoon in confusing Jim.
When he spoke, he spoke glibly, but the burden of his answer was:
"Well, if you reads 'em out to me, Mr. Rosser, mebbe I can tell."
And Mr. Rosser would rub his head and say:
"Jim, can't you remember anything?"
PAGE 8, COLUMN 1
Negro Sweeper Remanded to Solitude in Jail Over Night
Jim Conley Grilled for Many Hours By Frank's Attorney
Who Fails to "Rattle" Him
Luther Rosser Makes Negro Admit Lies and Terms in Prison, but Sweeper Remains Good Witness for State Women Excluded From Court Room During Afternoon Session.
Numerous Tilts Between Opposing Counsel Marked With Bitterness
The afternoon session of the Frank trial was marked by many tilts between the solicitor and his assistant with counsel for the defense and toward the end of the session much bitterness was injected into the remarks by various members of opposing counsel. Judge Roan decided with Frank's counsel, after vigorous protests by Solicitor Dorsey on the manner in which Attorney Rosser was questioning the witness, Jim Conley, the negro sweeper.
The jury was excused shortly before court adjourned for the day at 5:30 o'clock, and Attorney Arnold, for the defense, asked the court to have Conley placed in solitude where the prosecution could not talk with him. He argued that the examination of the negro is only half completed and that it would be unfair for the state's agents to converse with him. To his request the solicitor acquiesced and stated to the court that he hoped the prisoner would be safeguarded from any others reaching him. Judge Roan remanded the prisoner to the custody of Sheriff Mangum and ordered a special guard put over the witness during the night, allowing none to talk with him.
The only important development during the afternoon was the admission by Conley under cross-examination, that he had served seven terms in jail.
During the cross examination of the negro Jim Conley at the afternoon session, Attorney Rosser, for the defense, asked:
"On the second Saturday Jim, how much did you draw?"
"I disremember."
"Did you draw it yourself or did somebody draw it for you?"
"I disremember."
"The third time you watched for him, how much money did you draw?"
"I couldn't tell about that."
"Well, Thanksgiving week, did you draw money before or after Thanksgiving?"
"I've got no memory there."
"What did you do the day after Thanksgiving?"
"I came back to work."
"How much time did you make?"
"I don't remember."
"The day before Thanksgiving how many hours did you work?"
"I don't remember."
"Whom did you see that day?"
"I don't remember. I saw Mr. Frank, though."
The negro did not remember whether or not he saw the two foreladies who worked on the office floor. Mr. Rosser started with Thanksgiving day, and told the negro to go backwards and tell him how much he got for working on Saturdays. The negro said he got $1.25 for watching on Thanksgiving day, 75 cents on the previous Saturday that he watched, and 50 cents on the two preceding occasions. The negro said that he did not remember anything about his regular work on those days.
"Where were you living in December, 1912?"
"At 37-B Vine street."
"When was it you got in prison?"
"September."
"How long did you stay?"
"Three or four days."
The negro said that he couldn't tell what day he got in or what day he got out of prison. Answering questions, the negro said his "woman" moved while he was in prison to 172 Rhodes street. He admitted that he was not married to the woman, whose name he gave as Loreno. He said he had been living with her for two and a half years.
"Whom did you live with before?"
"At my mother's home."
"Haven't you had any other woman?"
"Not regular, just sweethearts."
The negro said that Lorena had two boys and a girl, the oldest being ten years old.
SECOND TERM IN JAIL.
"When were you in jail next time?"
"I don't remember."
"Before Christmas, or after?"
"Before."
"What month?"
"I don't remember."
"Well, now, Jim, how long were you in this last time?"
"About thirty or thirty-one days."
"And you don't know whether it was December, November, or October, do you?"
"No, sir."
"Was it cold or hot weather?"
"I can't say exactly."
"You know the first time you were in was September? Can't you fix it by that?"
"Well, it wasn't in November or December."
THREE TIMES IN JAIL.
"Then it must be in October. You've been in jail three times since you worked at the pencil factory, have you?"
"Yes."
"How many times in the last five years?"
"Seven or eight times, I think."
"You can't remember the first time you were in jail, can you?"
"No, sir."
Attorney Rosser questioned him in detail about the first, second, third and fourth time he was in jail, and Conley replied that he could not fix the time he had been sent to jail nor the length of his terms.
The fifth time he was in jail, he said, was sometime in 1911, but questioning by Attorney Rosser failed to fix the month. The sixth time, he said, was last September. Once after September, he said, and he couldn't remember the month.
SEVEN TERMS IN JAIL.
"As a matter of fact, you don't know how many times you were in jail, do you, Jim?"
"Well, I think it was seven times."
"Then you don't mean five or six times?"
"No, sir, I mean seven."
"Let's go back a little. The day you said you found this child dead was April 26. You knew there was no work at the factory?"
"Yes, sir, there was signs posted up all around."
"Could you read them?"
"No, sir."
"How did you know what they said?"
"Well, Mr. Campbell and Snowball read them to me."
"What day was it they read 'em to you?"
"I don't remember."
"You couldn't read them, could you?"
"I didn't try."
"Well, who read the sign to you first?"
"Mr. Campbell"
"Well, then, how did Snowball come to read it to you?"
"I didn't ask him to. I was just riding up on the elevator and he read it to me."
"How did you come to be on the elevator?"
"I had to go down in the basement after my freight."
SNOWBALL HIS COMPANION.
"You and Snowball were close friends, weren't you?"
"Well, just like any two that works at the factory."
"You drank with him, didn't you?"
"Yes, sir."
"You got drunk with him, in fact, didn't you?"
"No, sir, we didn't get drunk."
"No, sir, we didn't get drunk."
"Didn't you get drunk with him once on the fourth floor?"
"No, sir."
"How much beer would you drink a day?"
"About 10 cents worth a day."
"Where would you drink it?"
"In the basement."
"Now this first Saturday you watched for Frank, was Snowball there?"
"No, he wasn't there."
"Well, now this Thanksgiving that Frank talked boldly before Snowball "
TALKED BEFORE SNOWBALL.
Conley interrupted. "It wasn't Thanksgiving. It was the day before."
"Well, he talked to you, didn't he, before Snowball?"
"Yes, sir."
"How long had Snowball worked there?"
"I don't know."
"He's quit now, hasn't he?"
"I don't know whether he has or not."
"You only saw him read once, didn't you?"
"No, I saw him read a funny paper, once, too. He read it to me."
"No, sir. I only saw Mr. Frank, Mr. Holloway and Mr. Darley on the elevator."
RAN ELEVATOR FOR AWHILE.
"You were the elevator man a while and the sweeper a while?"
"Yes, sir, and for a while I lifted boxes around."
"The only job Snowball ever had was on the elevator and sweeping?"
"I guess so."
"When you were in prison, who took your jobs?"
"I don't know."
"Frank knew you were in prison didn't he?"
"He did one time, when I was working on the street in front of the factory."
"Was this the last time you were in jail?"
"I don't remember."
"The last time you were in jail you served your full time, either 21 or 30 days, didn't you?"
"Yes, sir."
"What were you fined the last time?"
"I didn't have a fine."
"Were you fined the time before."
"Yes, sir."
"And all the other times?"
"Yes, sir."
"How many other negroes worked in the factory besides you and Snoball?"
The negro made a mental calculation, and replied, "Six."
"How long has Joe Pride been there?"
"I don't know."
"How long has Walter Pride been there?"
"I don't know."
"What sort of work does Joe Pride do?"
"He had a job washing some kind of iron things."
"What sort of work did Walter Pride do?"
"He run some kind of a machine?"
The negro in detail named the other negroes and the nature of their work.
"You and Snowball and the negro fireman were the only negroes who did plain manual labor?"
"Yes, sir, I guess so."
"Were these negroes all employed there when you went to work at the factory?"
"All but Snowball and the fireman."
"And you and Snowball and the fireman were new darkies in the factory?"
"Yes, sir."
"The others had worked longer for Mr. Frank?"
"Yes, sir."
FRANK JOLLEYED HIM.
"When was the first day you ever saw Mr. Frank?"
"I don't remember."
"Had you been there a month before Frank spoke to you?"
"I don't know about that."
"When was the first time he ever talked to you about things except business?"
"I don't know, sir."
"Was it the first Saturday he told you to watch for him?"
"I think so. But he was always laughing and talking and jollying with me."
"Tell me one single thing that he ever said to you before that first Saturday, except about business. Tell me the day and time he said it."
"I don't know."
"Did Mr. Darley ever see Frank jollying with you? If so, tell me the day and the time."
"Yes, sir. I don't remember the time."
At this point Attorney Hooper entered an objection to Mr. Rosser's line of questioning, declaring before the witness could answer one question Mr. Rosser would ask him a second one. Judge Roan admonished Mr. Rosser to give the witness time to answer. Mr. Rosser replied that he hadn't asked him but one question at a time; that he wanted to give the negro plenty of time to answer.
Turning to the witness, Mr. Rosser inquired: "Jim, you say Mr. Frank jollied with you. Give me the date he jollied with you prior to the time you watched for him."
JIM'S FRIEND, SAYS ROSSER.
"I don't remember."
"You say he and Darley joked you. How long was this before you watched for Mr. Frank?"
"I don't know, sir. It was soon after Mr. Darley came."
"What did they say? Tell me one thing they said."
"I can't remember."
Attorney Hooper objected again, saying Mr. Rosser was continuing to ask a second question before the witness could answer one. To this Mr. Rosser replied "Jim and I are great friends. We're going along nicely together."
"Why did he read it? Because you couldn't read it?"
"I didn't ask him."
"What sort of paper was it?"
"I don't know. Just a funny paper."
"Where'd he get it?"
"He picked it up."
"On that time when you watched for Frank in January, was Snowball there?"
"I don't know."
"The only time you ever heard Frank say anything before Snowball was on Thanksgiving, was it not?"
"No, sir, one time in January."
"Frank just came out and talked to you before Snowball?"
"Snowball was up in the rack."
"Did Frank see him?"
"I don't know, sir. I don't suppose he cared. He had talked before him."
"What did Snowball do around there?"
"He helped sweep up. After Christmas, he went on the elevator."
"Who rode on the elevator? Did the employes ride on the elevator?"
ROAN SUSTAINS ROSSER.
Attorney Rosser fired innumerable questions at the negro, about various subjects. Once Solicitor Dorsey objected, saying that the questions were wholly immaterial to any issue and that he thought the court should put a stop to them. Judge Roan said that the questions which Attorney Rosser was asking were admissible on cross-examination, and allowed Mr. Rosser to continue.
Attorney Hooper interrupted Mr. Rosser several times, declaring to the court that the attorney on the other side continually fired second questions at the negro before he had been given the time to answer the previous question. Mr. Rosser said he only put in second questions after the negro said "I don't remember" to the others. On one occasion Mr. Hooper said: "You've asked the last five questions while the negro was talking and trying to answer the ones before them." Attorney Rosser contended that he was giving the negro plenty of time, and continued his examination.
Conley amused the court by explaining that Frank had joked with him by pinching him, and he said that Mr. Darley and Mr. Schiff both had seen him pinch him. Conley, after having first said that he remembered no specific jokes that Frank had had with him, after some time said that on one occasion, when he had the elevator in the basement, Frank had yelled to him that he'd better hurry the elevator up or he'd make a graveyard down there.
Conley said that Mr. Darley had joked with him by pinching him and kicking him playfully. Attorney Rosser asked the negro many questions about who was working on the fourth floor on specific dates. Usually the negro said he didn't remember, but in one answer he named three young women who are known to work in the factory.
Attorney Rosser asked specifically about Miss Daisy Hopkins. The negro declared that he had seen her working there from June until about Christmas time. He said that he did not know where she lived. Asked to describe her, he said she was low and chunky and heavy and very pretty. He said he didn't remember the color of her hair, and paid no attention to her eyes.
"What was her complexion?" asked Mr. Rosser.
"I don't know what you mean," said the negro.
"Well, I'm light complected, and you're dark," said Mr. Rosser.
"She was light complected then," said the negro. He said he didn't know the meaning of the words blonde and brunette, but said that the girl had a very light skin. He had paid no attention to her nose, he said.
"What do her ears look like?" demanded Mr. Rosser.
"Like the ears on folks," said the negro.
Conley said she was about twenty-three years old. He said that before Christmas Mr. Dalton told him as he was coming out of the basement one Saturday that Miss Daisy was going away. Conley described Dalton as "a little tall and sort of slim," and said that he had heavy eyebrows. He said that he was about Mr. Rosser's complexion, and about the height of Attorney Arnold, and that he was about thirty-five years old.
"Did you ever see Dalton in January?"
IDENTIFIED DALTON
"Yes, sir, he came out alone into the alley. He and the lady had been down in the basement."
"How long has it been since you've seen Dalton?"
"About a month."
"Where did you see him?"
"At police station. The detectives brought him to the station, and asked me if I knew him, and I said 'Yes, that's the man.'"
"How was Dalton dressed the first time you saw him, Jim?"
"I don't know."
"The next time you saw him?"
"I don't know."
"Well, the next time then?"
"I don't know what he had on then."
Mr. Rosser asked if Dalton had a mustache. Conley didn't know. Mr. Rosser asked if he had whiskers. Conley said "no."
"Now on this first Saturday that you watched, did you see Mr. Darley or Mr. Holloway?"
"I saw Mr. Holloway leave about 2 or 2:30."
"Did you see Mr. Darley?"
"I saw him in the morning."
Attorney Rosser asked Conley whom he had seen on each of the several days when he said he watched. In most instances, Conley said that he did not remember whether he had seen anybody or not, or who he had seen. He mentioned one day, however, when Mr. Holloway was sick. Attorney Rosser questioned him then about Thanksgiving day.
"Was Mr. Holloway sick that day?"
"No, sir; he was there."
"What time did he leave?"
"About 2 o'clock, I reckon."
MANY VISIT THERE SATURDAY.
"Now don't reckon, Jim. If you've got any memory about it, answer it directly."
"About 2 o'clock."
"The next time you watched was after Thanksgiving, Jim?"
"Yes, sir, it was in September."
"I thought you said it was after Thanksgiving?"
"Well, September's after Thanksgiving."
"The next time you watched, Jim, was right after Christmas, in January, wasn't it? Whom did you see that Saturday?"
"I don't remember."
"Jim, ain't it true that every Saturday men come there?"
"Yes; men that work there, and sometimes some girls that work there."
Attorney Rosser questioned him about the people who usually worked in the factory on Saturdays, and Conley didn't remember whether they had or didn't know whether they had, in some instances. He remembered one instance, and named again the three girls known to work in the factory.
"Now, take the fourth floor, Jim. You can come right down the stairway to the second floor, can't you?"
"Yes, sir."
"Anybody could come down those stairs and go all over the second floor, couldn't they?"
"No, sir. There's some iron doors going into the metal room."
"Well, they're not shut, are they, always?"
"I don't know."
"You've never looked at the lock on the door, then, have you?"
"No, sir."
"You've worked all over the factory, haven't you?"
"Well, I never worked in the metal department."
Conley proceeded, saying that he had swept out other portions of the second floor during the time he had worked there, but never had swept the metal department.
BEEN IN METAL ROOM.
"Then you have never been in there, have you?"
"Oh, yes, sir; I've been in there."
"On the left side of the second floor there's a long dark room isn't there?"
"Yes, sir."
"You've been back where the men's closets and the women's closets are, haven't you?"
"No, sir; I've been to Mr. Quinn's room, though."
"Well, how far away from the toilet is that?"
"Not far."
"Where is the plating room?"
"I don't know."
"Isn't it off to the left of the metal room?"
"I don't know."
"Well, where is the storage room?"
"I don't know. I never was in there."
"And you never were on the left side of the building back from the metal room?"
"No, sir."
"You never was on the left side?"
"No, sir."
"Quinn's office is over there, isn't it?"
"Yes, sir, but I never was in it. I've just been to Quinn's office."
"Have you been over there where they washed the lead?"
"No, sir."
"Well outside the time you went to Quinn's office and the time you sprinkled the disinfectants, have you ever been on the left hand side of the factory?"
"I've never been in the ladies' toilet."
"That's not what I'm asking. You say you've never been in the long dark room on the left hand side?"
"I didn't say anything about the long dark room."
"Didn't you say you never had been in the left side except to disinfect the toilets and poke bills into Quinn's office?"
"I've been where they washed the lead."
"I thought you said you never saw the place where they washed the lead?"
"No, sir, I didn't say that." The negro described the vats where the lead is washed, stating that some had cold water in them and others contained hot water.
"All right, then; so you went over to disinfect and you poked bills into Quinn's office, and you went and sprinkled where they washed the lead?"
"I didn't say I sprinkled where they washed the lead. I went there to wash overalls."
"Outside of these three times, have ever been over on the left hand side of the factory in your life?"
"Yes, sir, I went back where the dark place was."
"Why you told me a moment ago you hadn't been back there?"
"You asked me if I went back to get that stuff out."
"Did you ever go back there for any purpose"
"I don't know."
"When was the last time you went back there?"
"When I went to get a piece of cloth for Mr. Frank."
"Didn't you clean up back there?"
"No, sir, I stacked some boxes back there and took out some boxes that the rats had torn up."
"Well, how many times have you been back there?"
"I don't know."
Witness said that he thought that the last time he went back there was before Christmas, but he didn't remember when. Conley interrupted the cross-examination by asking for a glass of water, which a deputy sheriff furnished to him.
DEFENSE CONFERS.
Attorneys Rosser and Arnold left the court at this juncture and went into conference in an ante room. They returned in about five minutes. By his method of examination, Attorney Rosser made it clear that he had settled down to a long endurance contest. Conley seemed, too, to know that he was a speaking marathon, and was slower and more guarded with his answers.
Mr. Rosser continued questioning the negro on every subject. He tried to get description from the negro of Frank's private office and the outer office, but elicited little from Conley. The negro said, however, that there were two desks in the private office, one of which was used by Frank and the other usually by Herbert Schiff. The negro didn't know whether the big safe, when its door was open, shut out the view from Frank's private office.
The negro said that when any one came up the steps and went by the clock they could be seen from Frank's private office, and any one standing at the head of the stairs could see inside. Attorney Rosser exhibited a blueprint of the factory, and had Conley point out on it the point where he swears he was standing when he claims Frank first asked him to act as a lookout.
FRANK UNCONCERNED.
For the first time since the trial commenced, Frank and Mrs. Frank did not appear to be taking a very keen interest in the proceedings, but laughed and talked together quite a bit.
The negro admitted, under questions, that a Miss Willis, who was a forelady on the fourth floor, could have seen Frank talking with him from her desk. The attorney questioned him minutely about the arrangement of the fourth floor.
Conley gave evidences of getting nervous, and continually licked his lips.
On the afternoon when Frank first talked to him about watching, he remembered going by the clocks, because one of them was ten minutes fast, and he called Mr. Holloway's attention to them. The negro had at first said that he punched the clock that afternoon, but later said he was not sure about the punching, though he remembered perfectly talking to Holloway about the time.
"How much did you drink on Friday?"
"I don't remember. I had a few beers in the evening."
"Do you know Harry Scott? He goes around with Black."
"Yes, sir, I know him."
ADMITS DISCREPANCIES.
"Now at the station house, just after you were arrested, you told them you got up at 9 o'clock Saturday, didn't you? That wasn't true, was it"
"No, sir."
"What time did you eat breakfast, Saturday morning?"
"I ate about 7:30."
"Well, you didn't tell Scott that did you, first time?"
"No, sir."
"You told him you left home that morning about 10 o'clock. That wasn't true, was it?"
"No, sir."
"You told them you went to Peters that the defense has been expecting us to enter an objection here," said he.
"I didn't think you'd have the gall to do it," said Mr. Rosser.
Attorney Hooper stated his objection, arguing that if the defense wanted to impeach Conley's testimony they were required to let him read or read to him these affidavits.
Attorney Arnold answered the argument. "Your honor, you can see that a witness like this, who has been canned, coaxed and kept by a chosen few, has to be questioned with some elasticity if he is to be impeached." In the course of his argument he said: "I don't doubt that he made four or five lying narratives about this murder with just as straight a face as he is now telling it to the jury."
Solicitor Dorsey said that Attorney Arnold had made a statement which there was no evidence to support, and that the statement ought not to be allowed in the record. He then cited an authority to prove that any writing by which it is intended to impeach the witness must be shown to the witness before he is questioned on it, or must be read to him. He said that the remarks made by Mr. Arnold were prejudicial and improper, and he wanted the court to instruct the jury to that effect.
Attorney Arnold arose. He remarked that Solicitor Dorsey, in his usual "fussy, snarling way," had interposed an objection. In his argument he said that the defense intended to show that each of the four "lying versions" of the murder given by Conley was preceded by pumping by the detectives. "We expect to show he was pumped for more than two weeks before he ever made any statement, and we purpose showing that he lied and said he didn't know anything about the crime, until confronted by his handwriting."
Judge Roan asked what the question was.
Attorney Rosser proceeded.
PUTS NEW QUESTION.
"At the time of the conversation on May 18, 1913, between you and Detectives Black and Scott, how long had you been in jail?"
"Eighteen days I reckon. I was arrested the first of May."
"On that day, how long did they talk to you before you admitted knowing anything?"
"Not long. I sent for Mr. Black that day."
"On that day you were just talking to Scott and Black?"
"Yes, sir."
"You didn't make an affidavit?"
"I think so."
"It was just a statement you made?"
"It was some kind of something."
"The first time you talked of your movements on that Saturday, you didn't send for Black, did you?"
"The first time I sent for Mr. Black was when I began telling."
"Didn't you talk before that about when you got up, went to Peters street, got some liquor?"
"Yes, sir."
"You didn't send for anybody then?"
"It seems to me like I sent for Mr. Black."
"You may be mistaken?"
"Yes, sir."
"Where were you when you made this statement to Black and Scott?"
"Upstairs in the detective rooms."
"Who else was there?"
"Nobody."
"How long did they talk to you before you made that statement? Three or four hours?"
"No, sir, not that long."
WHEN HE WROTE.
"Hadn't you told them before that time that you could write?"
"I had done some writing in the chief's office that Sunday."
"What Sunday?"
"I don't know."
"Before you made any statement?"
"Yes, sir, about two days."
"Didn't you tell Black and Scott that you bought half a pint of whisky on Peters street at 10 o'clock?"
"No, sir, I told Mr. Black about 10:30."
"Well, that was not so, was it?"
"No, sir."
"Didn't you tell him you left Rhodes street at 10:30?"
"I don't remember, that was three months ago. I can't keep everything in my mind."
"And can't you remember three months ago?"
"Not everything."
"How much did you tell them you paid for the liquor?"
"Forty cents. That's what I always pay for a half pint."
"Where did you tell them you went?"
Before Mr. Rosser could conclude his question, Mr. Hooper arose and said:
HOOPER PROTESTS.
"Your honor, we have no objection to all the evidence, statements, affidavits, and everything going before the jury. This line of questioning here can only be for the purpose of impeachment. This being true, he should not ask a question about 'Did you not tell son and so at such and such a time?' That's not a proper question. The law prescribes a way for the cross-examination of a witness on a point like this, and the witness has a right to be examined as the law directs. He may ask the witness 'Did you not on such an occasion make such a statement?' But I submit that he cannot ask the witness what the witness said to somebody else on such and such an occasion. The law is as plain as the nose on your face."
Attorney Rosser inquired of the court: "Is it to be said that I can't ask this witness what he told a man at a given time?"
Attorney Hooper then read the code to show how a witness could be impeached. "The foundation must first be laid," read Mr. Hooper, "then the question must be put as to whether or not the witness made such a statement at such a time and place."
Jude Roan ruled that the witness was the state's witness, and that the defense had the right on cross-examination to test his memory.
"That's all true, your honor," said Mr. Hooper, "but the law prescribes how a witness' memory may be tested, and I would like my friend Rosser to inform me from what paper he is reading."
ROSSER IS ANGERED.
"I'm not going to enlighten him or the witness, either!" snapped Mr. Rosser.
Judge Roan ruled that the defense had a right to ask these questions, not for the purpose of impeachment, but to test the witness' memory.
"Does your honor hold that this examination is not for the purpose of impeachment?" asked Mr. Hooper.
"I don't know what it will result in," replied the court, "but I am going to permit the defense to test the memory of the witness they have made to Scott and Black on May 18. Mr. Rosser termed this "his first statement."
"Didn't you say that after you bought some liquor at 11 o'clock you went to some other saloon?"
"I don't remember saying anything about 11 o'clock, but I told them I went to Early's saloon."
"Well, didn't you tell them you went to the Butt-In saloon after that?"
"I can't remember what I told, but I went to the Butt-In saloon before I bought the liquor."
"Then you told some things that were not true, did you?"
"Yes, sir."
DIDN'T WANT TO TELL.
"Well, how do you let anybody know, Jim, when you're lying and when you're telling the truth?"
"Well, sometimes I hang my head. I know I didn't tell all the truth then," said the negro, turning toward the jury. "I just didn't want to give the man away. I thought he'd look out for me."
"What did you tell them you did in the Butt-In saloon?"
"I don't know what I told 'em I did there, but I won 90 cents shooting dice. And then I went to another saloon and bought some beer."
"Now, Jim, didn't you tell them you bought the beer there?"
"I don't remember."
"Did you look 'em in the eye?"
"I don't remember."
"Did you tell 'em about buying wine?"
"I don't remember"
"From Peters street did you go straight home?"
"I disremember."
"What time was it that you sent the little girl for the pan sauce?"
"I don't remember that."
"Then you started after some beer at 3 o'clock, didn't you? And it was after that that you sent the girl for the sauce?"
"It was after I had come back," answered the witness."
"How much money did you tell them that you had?"
"I don't remember, but I think about $3.50."
"Didn't you deny to them that you were at the factory at all that day, and try to show them where you were?"
"Yes, sir."
"Dd you hang your head?"
WHEN HE'S LYING.
"I disremember, but I didn't look 'em straight in the eye like I'm looking you."
"Yes, Jom. I know you're looking me in the eye. What detective told you to?"
"Nory detective. I'm telling the truth."
"Jim, what are some of your other lying habits?"
"Well, when I was talking to them, sometimes I played with my fingers."
"Wouldn't one detective cuss you out and call you a rascal, and say he thought you was guilty, and the other say 'I don't believe he did it?'"
"No, sir, they never cussed me out."
"Well, wasn't Black your friend, and didn't Scott pretend to think you was guilty?"
"No, sir."
"Well, what did they have you in the detectives' office for, all those times, three and four hours at a stretch, if they weren't pumping you?"
"They tried to get me to tell it all at once."
"Didn't they have another negro in the cell with you down at police station?"
"There was one in there once, for two days."
"Didn't you tell him the detectives were mad at you?"
"No, sir, he never asked me anything. He didn't even know what I was in there for."
"Well, you knew why he was in there, didn't you?"
In an aside to Mr. Hooper and Solicitor Dorsey Mr. Rosser said: "Of course, I can go for him with both feet. You've had your enlightening day. Now I'm going to have mine."
"No, sir, he cried most of the time."
ROSSER INTERRUPTS.
"Tell why it was you sent for Black on May 24?"
"Well, I wanted to tell something. I hadn't heard from Mr. F "
Mr. Rosser shot another question at him. Solicitor Dorsey objected to the interruption. "I submit, your honor, the witness has a right to explain his answers. He said he had heard nothing from Frank, and he was waiting for some word in accordance with Frank's promise."
The attorneys argued. The argument simmered down to nothing without a ruling from the judge.
Conley went on and told that after he had sent word to Black that he wanted to tell something, Black said, "Wait a minute. I'll be back down in a minute." He said that Black went upstairs and returned in about fifteen minutes with Scott, and that the two detectives then took him upstairs. On the way up, said Conley, he told the detectives that he was ready to tell some of it, but that he would hold back the rest.
"Did they read you what you said?"
Solicitor Dorsey objected. Mr. Rosser withdrew the question, adding, "I'll bring it in later. I don't blame my friend for snickering. A man who got all this ought to snicker."
"You told Black you were going to tell part of the truth and hold back part of the truth?"
"Yes, sir."
"Was Scott there when you told this to Black?"
"I didn't see him. I told Mr. Black when he was taking me out of the cell to take me upstairs."
"When they were writing down your statement, did you tell them that you were going to tell part of the truth and hold back part of it?"
"They didn't ask me, and I didn't tell them anything about it."
"Did you tell them you were going to lie about it?"
"No, sir."
"This second time, didn't you tell the detectives that about four minutes to 1 Mr. Frank came up the aisle and asked you to come to the office?"
"Yes, sir. I told them that."
"Then what?"
TELLS ABOUT NOTES.
"I told them I wen into the office and Mr. Frank asked me if I could write some. I said I could write a little. Then I said he handed me a tab and told me write. He said he had some people in Brooklyn and he would send it up to them and tell them I was a good negro."
"What kind of a tab did you tell the detectives that was?"
"I told them it was white single-ruled paper."
"What else?"
"I don't remember."
"Jom, you've got a poor memory haven't you?"
"Yes, sir."
"You don't remember well?"
"No, sir."
"Did you tell them anything else?"
"Yes, but I don't remember what it was."
"Is that all you remember?"
"Yes, but if you'll call out something I'll tell you whether I said it or not."
"Didn't you tell them what you put in the notes?"
"Yes, sir. I told them I wrote 'Mother, that long tall black negro did this.'"
"You said this morning you didn't remember what was in the notes."
"I didn't remember it then."
"Yet, you wrote them?"
"Yes, sir."
"And you know you wrote them?"
"Yes, sir."
"What was it you told them about those notes?"
"I told them I wrote, 'Mother, that long tall black negro did this by his self.'"
"And you said this morning you didn't remember what was in the notes."
"Yes, but I remember now what I put there."
"How did your memory happen to get so good all of a sudden?"
"Because you've been calling it out to me."
"I didn't call it out to you at all. Why didn't you tell the solicitor this morning what you wrote in those notes?"
"I didn't remember."
"Well, is that all you wrote in the notes?"
"I put some more, but I don't remember what it was. I know I put that on there."
Mr. Rosser continued questioning Conley about statements to the detectives, and the negro's memory continued poor.
"In that second statement you told nothing about totting the little girl, did you?"
"Yes, sir," said the negro, "I think I told something about it."
"Then, Jim, everything you've said is just as true as that statement that told in that second statement about totting the little girl?"
Solicitor Dorsey interrupted. He declared that the statements themselves were the best evidence, that they were in court because counsel for the defense had asked for them in open court, and that they should now be produced.
"But Mr. Dorsey that's the same argument that I ruled on a while ago," said Judge Roan.
DORSEY PROTESTS.
"Your Honor, he is interrogating this witness about those very same statements that he has made us produce in court. The dates are the same, your honor. Why your honor, should all rules of law be set aside with reference to this man? How can you shut your eyes to the fact that these papers are here, and that he is asking about these papers?"
"I ruled before," said Judge Roan, "that they can use these affidavits in an effort to contradict the witness, and then they must follow the course that you outlined. But they deny that they are using these statements."
"Well, doesn't this court know what's going on?" asked Solicitor Dorsey.
"They have the right to ask what he told these men and what was embodied afterward in the form of an affidavit," said Judge Roan.
"I contend they have not," said the solicitor.
JUDGE RULES WITH DEFENSE.
"I rule that they have," said Judge Roan.
Mr. Dorsey started to read an authority, but looked at the judge angrily and sat down.
The solicitor remarked to Attorney Hooper as he sat down that the judge was talking with a visitor and not heeding him.
Judge Roan explained his ruling. "Before an effort is made to impeach a witness," he said, "the usual law relative to affidavits or any statements in writing must be followed. But I hold that the witness can be questioned about statements which he made to the detectives, which may or may not later have been put into the form of affidavits."
Mr. Rosser continued.
"Jim, don't you know you didn't say a word about that little dead girl at that time?"
"I didn't say I did say anything about her. I said I thought I did."
"Did you tell anything about going down into the basement with the little girl that time?"
"I don't remember."
"What did you mean by saying you were going to keep back part of it?"
"I said I was going to keep back the best of it."
Judge Roan turned to the sheriff a moment later, and said, "Mr. Sheriff, I wish you'd take the jury out." The jury went out.
Attorney Arnold addressed the court.
ASKS SOLITUDE FOR CONLEY.
"Your honor, we want to move that the court take possession of this man and order the sheriff to take him and let no one talk to him. Your honor sees the situation. The examination is only half over. We object to him being turned over to the prosecution. We ask your honor to do the fair and square thing. Don't let even the sheriff talk with him until he gets back on the stand. He is now in the custody of the court."
Attorney Hooper, after a consultation with Solicitor Dorsey, made this statement:
"So far as the state is concerned, we have no objection to the request of Mr. Arnold. We want to stress one point, however, and that is that this witness is not to be talked to by anyone."
Judge Roan addressed the sheriff.
"Mr. Sheriff, this man's examination is not over. It is not fair for him to be talked to by anyone not even yourself."
Attorney W. M. Smith, counsel for Conley, who had moved to one of the vacant seats in the jury box, the jury being out, arose and addressed the court.
"Your honor, I represent this man. My efforts have been directed toward protecting the interests of this negro. I have gone from his cell to the courtroom with him, and from the courtroom back to his cell with him. I have full faith and confidence in Brother Mangum, but I know the conditions at the jail, and unless one negro is appointed to guard him I fear it will be impossible to keep him from being talked to. This man, as your honor knows, has gone through a most severe ordeal."
Attorney Arnold objected to the last remark of Attorney Smith, declaring that Mr. Smith had nothing to do with this trial.
Sheriff Mangum spoke up.
"I will see that he has as good fare as is served to any white man in the jail."
Attorney Smith: "Isn't it true that Mr. Frank has additional food served to him?"
"You send him something extra, if you want him to have it!" shouted Mr. Rosser.
"That's what I want to do," replied Mr. Smith.
Judge Roan then ordered the sheriff to take the witness, guard him carefully, and see that he is back in court at 9 o'clock Tuesday morning.
Sheriff Mangum walked out with Frank, and Deputy Sheriff Penny Minor with Conley.
Frank was taken to jail in the sheriff's automobile, and Conley followed in Chief Beavers' automobile.
"I ain't going to worry," the negro was heard to say as he was being led out of the building, evidently in response to some assurance spoken to him.
Court adjourned at 5:30 o'clock.